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Marcinkiewicz/other mp with C/V cups for orchestra playing?



 
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teongsfd
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:04 am    Post subject: Marcinkiewicz/other mp with C/V cups for orchestra playing? Reply with quote

Hi trumpeters,

Is there somebody who plays regularly on a mouthpiece with a C/V cup, like Marcinkiewicz or Stork etc. for (mostly classical) orchestral/chamber/solo stuff? I would like to hear your experiences with them, I am trying to narrow down my choices for possibly a new mouthpiece.

At the moment I am using a Bach 6B with my C trumpet setup. I have experimented quite a bit with rim, throat sizes and backbore shape but something always did not feel right until I switched to the 6B, and that feels much more in the 'right' direction I want. Considering that all the other mouthpieces I have are very much with the C or bowl shape cup, I am beginning to suspect that perhaps a more V shape in the cup would be what I need to pair with my C trumpet.

However I feel that I can potentially run into endurance problems with the 6B (I am not able to check that yet, since most of my playing work are on historical trumpets), I am thinking of looking into mouthpieces with the C/V cups as I would imagine that they would be more efficient. Anybody with this experience before? All responses would be very much appreciated!

Thank you!
D
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JVL
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello
i've been playing exclusively Marc. mpcs for 7 years, from lead mpcs to very deep ones, with a lot of cup depths, throat sizes, bb combinations.
I needed a time to adjust to the cup shape in deep mpcs at first.

You should contact them, they'll give you all the answers you need
best
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some very prominent orchestral trumpet players on Stork mouthpieces. The model is not mentioned by any of them, but they could be the C/V hybrids.
https://storkcustom.com/artists/
R. Tomasek
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teongsfd
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVL

Thanks for your reply! What was it with the cup shape in deep sizes that made it so that you need some time to get used to it? Was it something in the resistance or?

Vin

Thanks for the link, I will look into the Stork line as well.
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JVL
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Teong

yes, exactly, it was resistance wise.
I'll add i'm playing a inner diameter just 0.05mm larger than the Ingram model (given by Marcinkiewicz at 16.54mm), but it feels to me between a Bach 10 3/4 and 10 1/2.

So, like i said, this adjustment was needed with the deep mpcs (C and A Bach cup depthes kind).
This plus the small diameter conduced me to ask for a bigger throat size, even with the symphonic backbore. Their standard throat size is #27, i had to go to #26. Their #25 & 24 give me a very interesting sound, warmer, more around what i have in mind, but not always appropriated. So for classical music my throat size is 26; while my lead mpcs has a 28 one.

hope this helps

best
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furcifer
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mostly play a Marcinkiewicz E14 B. Shew 1 for lead/commercial stuff, but on the off chance I find myself sitting in a chair, I have my choice of the B. Shew 1.25 and 1.75, along with one of the old Callet 1CV mouthpieces that gets a huge tone without being such a big bathtub to play on. I don't think Callet has made any of those in several years, but the real secret for me is a comfortable, rounded inner rim, especially on a deep cup - which is why I also play a Marcinkiewicz 3FLD on flugel. If you can find one if the old CV's from Callet, it might be worth a try, but Marcinkiewicz rim contours are some of the most comfortable I've found. Maybe some people need a little bite on the inside of the rim, but it never did anything good for me.
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JVL
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

totally agree with Furcifer about the rim comfort.
If i want to be more "pointilleux", i'll say that for classical music, especially for faster clean attacks, a little more bite in the inner cup would be necessary, like said Furcifer.
But for the comfort, flex etc and generally speaking, they're prefect to me
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O00Joe
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't go wrong with a Stork Vacchiano for a C/V combination cup mouthpiece. The website talks about a "clarion" quality to the sound and they're definitely on to something. For me, it's really easy to get that quintessential rich & powerful American orchestral C sound with these mouthpieces. They're one of the most popular lines among pros for a good reason.

Not to mention the price being at around $90 is entirely reasonable for a mouthpiece that includes many custom parameters. You choose the diameter, cup depth, cup shape, throat, and backbore. I'm about to order a 4C25C to see how I like a larger back end.

I've been using the two listed in my signature on C for a few years and they're easily still the most impressive mouthpieces I've worked with personally. Everything is easy like a GR but you still get that colorful Bach-esque sound.
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JVL
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teong
some infos here
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1571350#1571350
best
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teongsfd
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVL, Furcifer, O00Joe,

Thank you so much for your input, and sorry that I could not reply sooner; I was on the road for administrative things.

I will for sure have a look at both the Marc and Stork mouthpieces, I will check my local store this week to see if they have them in stock. Otherwise I will just order something from Thomann or maybe directly from the companies.

O00Joe,
I see in your signature that you also play on a 6BM mouthpiece, how does the Stork compare to that for you?

Thanks again!
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O00Joe
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bach 6BM and Stork Vacchiano are kinda opposites. The 6BM is a 6B mixed with a 26 throat and 24 backbore, the 6B cup itself is more U shaped creating a relatively large bowl. I like using my 6BM for orchestral stuff or if I need a 'darker' sound on Bb.

I didn't intentionally do this but over the years I ended up using different mouthpieces for C and Bb. I just like the way these mouthpieces feel on their respective trumpets.

The Stork Vacchiano line as a whole is based on the Bach 5B, which has a notably V mixed with C shaped cup. I believe their B depth would be the closest match. I like their C depth the most as it has the perfect balance of richness and sparkle.
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1981 Bb Bach Stradivarius 37/25 ML raw - VBC. 5C & 6BM, Curry 5DE
2003 C Bach Stradivarius 239/25A L silver - Stork Vacchiano 4C26B & 4D26B, Yamaha 13B4
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O00Joe
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to add, if you like the Bach 5 diameter. the Denis Wick American 5C has a C/V blended cup with approximately a 25 throat and a medium-large "V" backbore. It's more like a Bach 5B than 5C, maybe just a tad more shallow.

Also I was playing around switching between a VBC. 5B and my Stork Vacchianos and I noticed the Storks have a bit more "C" shape in their cups than the Bach 5B. They added just enough that it get rids if that slight edginess and unclear articulation you can get from a Bach 5B while keeping that beautiful American C trumpet sound.

You can customize the degree of "C" with Stork Vacchianos, they add more room at the top of the cup. They designate this with a "+". I have a 4C+26C but I don't use it because I feel it adds to much "weight" to the sound. I would use it on Bb before I'd use it on C. Though, principal trumpet of the Boston Symphony, Tom Rolfs, famously uses a 2B+25C.

Anyway, I'm a bit of a Stork fanboy but seriously they're worth checking out.
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1981 Bb Bach Stradivarius 37/25 ML raw - VBC. 5C & 6BM, Curry 5DE
2003 C Bach Stradivarius 239/25A L silver - Stork Vacchiano 4C26B & 4D26B, Yamaha 13B4
2006 Bb/A Schilke Piccolo P5-4 silver - Reeves A adaptor - Stork SM SP6
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teongsfd
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O00 Joe

Thanks so much for your replies!
I was playing around with different mouthpiece configurations the past week, and unfortunately my local store does not stock any of the Marcinkiewicz and Stork mouthpieces.

I managed to borrow a couple of 2 part mouthpieces, and I think I at least zoomed in on a backbore I need for my C trumpet playing: a Warburton 12 (Bach 87 equivalent from the Warburton website). I also borrowed a couple of B cups (Kantsul and Pickett Brass) but they are far too big and too much cup volume to be playing comfortably.

But I would be still very interested in trying the Stork mouthpieces, and maybe just bringing it to a mouthpiece maker near me to open the backbore up to the size I want. One more question: The rim size/feel of the 4 series of Stork, how does that feel compared to the 6BM? I know the catalogues list them as 16.25mm and 16.20mm respectively, but I would like to hear how you perceive the rims as we all know that those numbers could very well mean something completely different depending on where the measurements are taken.

Thanks again!
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Mark Geelen GR Mod+
David Staff 'Ehe' in F
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Schagerl 'Thetis' C
Selmer Bb/A piccolo, Jun RB Bb leadpipe
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JVL
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello Teong
don't want to put my salt grain where it's not asked but since every brand has its own characteristics, mostly in rim contours, like i suggested you before, the best would be to write to Graham Middleton at Marcinkiewicz, he knows what he talks about and is very serious and helpful
best
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