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Student trumpet help!


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Mmac
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:49 pm    Post subject: Student trumpet help! Reply with quote

Hi I’m looking for your expert advice... my 10 year old will be starting the trumpet and has no prior experience... I’ve been researching and see a variety of Yamaha models (2330, 2320, 2335, 200AD). Which of those if any would you choose? If you have other suggestions aside from these I’m open to them! Thanks so much for your help! Signed clueless trumpet mom!
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Bb Bob
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just picked up a Yamaha YCR 2330 II Cornet for my 10 year old grand daughter. It’s a short cornet (Shepard’s crook) and fits her much better than a trumpet. I don’t think you can go wrong with a Yamaha student model for a beginner. The used ones can be had for under $500. Paid $300 on Reverb for a nice silver one last week.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd vote for renting. Find out which music store your school deals with (they probably already have a rental program)..

Renting will provide you with an adequate instrument, one that you can upgrade from AND has a repair/maintenance clause. Your beginner will damage and not care for the instrument as one should - that's part of the learning curve.
If your child continues you then can look for an appropriate instrument with equity toward an upgrade, if the trumpet is not for her then you're not having to sell a used student trumpet (resale is not going to recoup much)
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Mmac
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks yes I considered the rental but he is committed to play for the next 3 years so after all
Said and done the rental will cost me well over $400. I figured better to buy one used and resell whenever the time comes. I’m assuming the cornet wouldn’t be acceptable if they were assigned to play the trumpet?
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the two most important considerations are that the horn be a proven reliable brand and that it be in good mechanical condition. Yamaha is certainly a proven reliable brand so any of the Yamaha models can be plenty adequate for a beginner if the mechanics are in good condition. Testing the mechanics of the horn may be something you want to leave to a professional. If the horn is a proven reliable brand and in good mechanical condition it isn't going to matter which particular model you choose for a beginner.

Pride of ownership can be a motivating factor. Kids generally don't want to show up with a beat up clunker of a horn. So, cosmetics can be an important consideration.

Most kids these days seem to want a silver plated horn rather than a lacquered horn, particularly if the horn is used and is showing some wear. They also want a case that looks to be in good condition. These are things to be considered.

A Bb cornet is in the same key as a Bb trumpet, so a Bb cornet can be fine for a beginner. This is especially the case if the player is small because a cornet is more compact than a trumpet and, thus, easier for small hands to hold. When I started in 1960 my dad gave me a cornet he got at a garage sale. I played it until I entered the 7th grade in 1962 and it worked fine for me. At that point he got me a trumpet.

The foregoing being said, if everyone else shows up with a trumpet a cornet will look odd/different and that can be a factor in terms of pride of ownership/motivation. Back in 1960 lots of kids started out on cornet so there was nothing odd about me playing one. I don't know if that's the case today. If the student can hold a trumpet without difficulty I would go that direction today.

Finally, there is the question of rent vs. buy. There are a lot of used horns available that can be purchased for far below their original retail price, they won't depreciate further if taken care of and they are readily saleable if the student quits or if you want to upgrade, so you can get all or at least most of your investment back if you sell the horn later. In contrast, if you rent and the student quits then the rental money is gone.

In my opinion buying is superior economically compared to a 3 year rental. So if this really is a 3 year commitment and you can afford to buy I think that's the better option in terms of ultimate cost.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started on a cornet, as did my son. But, based on my experience, if you are in the US you will most likely need to upgrade to a trumpet by middle school.
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Walter Bone
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 2330 and I must say it's an excellent student horn, even if it's a Made in China one.
There are a lot of student Yamaha trumpets on the used market so you can easily buy a mint one for less than $300.
If the horn doesn't have damage on the lacquer and looks good (no ding or dents), it's quite sure it'll be mechanically fine. It's very unusual that these kind of trumpets get repaired due to their price, and a lot are in near new state because they come from quitters.
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bhornFree
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERMOKIWI wrote:
Most kids these days seem to want a silver plated horn rather than a lacquered horn, particularly if the horn is used and is showing some wear. They also want a case that looks to be in good condition. These are things to be considered.


Yep.

I think you hit the nail on the head with all your points. I'm sitting here looking at a Yamaha YTR 2335 I picked up for a couple hundred bucks. It's really a decent instrument and trumpet son had a great tone on it. But when he kept showing up for honors bands, every other kid there (middle school mind you) had their brand new silver plated Strads and Xenos (and a Silver Flair LOL). And he was profoundly unhappy about that situation. Even though he'd beaten most of the other kids with his "misfit" trumpet. So, that might be a consideration. The kids in his local band had everything under the sun so if he'd stuck to that he would have been fine (except our brass tech never could get the 3rd slide to move well enough to be useful).

On the other hand, he had it much better than his twin who was sitting there on an unlacquered Elkhart 6D horn (who is also profoundly unhappy and wants a shiny "geyer" like all the other kids ... sigh...)

I'm sure OP's kids are much more mature than mine. In retrospect, I personally would take the "whining factor" into consideration. I'd probably buy a Yamaha again but look for something silver You can only explain it's about the sound, not the appearance so many times before you're ready to scream.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To 'Trumpet Mom' (Mmac),

A cornet is basically interchangeable with a trumpet (except for a very slight difference in sound, which won't even be noticed in beginner players). And a cornet can be much easier to hold in the proper position for some people, and usually is ok for everyone (except maybe very tall).

If there is a music store that sells used instruments, that can save some money. And if you are willing, you might find something on craigslist or classified ads - but you'll have to know how to evaluate the condition of the horn.

Jay
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Mmac
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting I’ve seen some silver ones around and never gave it much thought! So you are saying purchase one of those over the brassy/gold color?
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Bb Bob
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver does seem to be the preferred look for the kids. Those pre and early teen years are full of insecurity and a need to fit in. So if a silver horn keeps them interested, why not.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's likely that any of those Yamaha models would work fine. The big caveat being that any used horn needs to be passed by a trusted shop or teacher to ensure it's in good working condition. While the Yamaha student horns are reliably sturdy and durable there's always a chance that any given horn will have suffered gross neglect or damage. And any older horn may need basic routine care like new corks and felts to make it play at its best.

FWIW I had a good number of months on a Yamaha 2000-series that I like quite well. I'm hardly familiar with the 200AD and seem to recall reading that it may be inferior. But don't take that as gospel.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmac wrote:
Interesting I’ve seen some silver ones around and never gave it much thought! So you are saying purchase one of those over the brassy/gold color?


From the standpoint of the capability of the instrument for a beginner either lacquered (brassy/gold color) or silver plated doesn't matter. The issue is more about pride of ownership/fitting in with the other students. It seems nowadays that to young students a silver plated horn is perceived as "better" and more "in" than a lacquered horn.

There can be a lot of "peer" issues in playing trumpet that can have a psychological effect on a student's motivation/desire to practice and get better. So, starting the student out on a horn he or she is proud of and which conforms to his or her notions of what is expected in order to be accepted and respected by the other students can be an important consideration. At the beginner level these are purely cosmetic issues. Fortunately, there are a lot of great looking silver plated used trumpets available at modest prices.
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:06 am    Post subject: teacher Reply with quote

If your child is starting school band, talk to the band director. There may be many students that are no longer in band and want to sell their trumpets.

I have played both lacquer and silver trumpets. Don't hear much difference in sound, but I prefer the silver plated instruments.

Just bought a Yamaha 431 t for $215.00 off Shopgoodwill included shipping and handling. Then $95.00 dollars for ultrasound cleaning and cleaning the 3rd valve block. Tuning slide was stuck and piece of metal needed to be removed from 3rd valve block. Couldn't screw in the stem on 3rd valve piston.

Yamaha trumpets are very consistent in sound and high quality built.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ESPECIALLY at beginning levels, the finish is not much more than cosmetic. A beginning student will sound no better or worse, or will have an “ easier “ time with silver, lacquer, gold (God forbid for a beginner!) or raw brass (which is probably a bad choice for a kid for other reasons).

Sure, peer pressure is a factor, but the finish will make zero playing or sound difference to a beginner, although he or she might think it does....placebo affect.

Brad
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furcifer
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver-plated is more expensive, but usually holds up better and will have a higher resale value, when they're ready for a pro horn in about 3-4 years. I've seen pro lacquer horns start getting spots after two years, and it just kills me when that happens. So, be thinking in terms of an upgrade pretty soon, because pro-quality trumpets can be had relatively cheap compared to other instruments. Trumpet players can usually move up to a pro horn sooner, and an excellent student's playing will be naturally more exposed on solos, etc., and worthy of the upgrade by that time, as well. When it's time, you'll know when, because a pro horn will obviously facilitate the student's continued progress as well. I got a Bach 37 after 3 years and played it for another 38 years before I bought a new Stomvi.

Cornets are great if that's just what the kid wants, or if they're small for their age, etc. But I would talk to them and their director about concept of sound, first. If they're going to be playing a lot of stuff more suited to the trumpet in their 2nd or 3rd year, then a cornet might not be the best idea.

I started on a Yamaha YCR-231 cornet with a deep Bach 7 mouthpiece, and I fought the sound it got and developed a lot of bad habits without realizing it, because to this day I still have a bright sound concept for trumpet music. I love my flugelhorn too, but that's what I prefer to use when I want a dark sound; I still have no great desire to play a lot of dark stuff on a trumpet.
All those Yamaha horns are excellent.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look at these older threads:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=139620&highlight=200ad

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56724&highlight=200ad

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=129151&highlight=200ad

And possibly this one:
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=125611&highlight=200ad

Depending on where you live, there might be a fabulous music store close to you that you might not know about. If you let us know your locale, we could recommend our favorite music store near you.

Trent Austin, a frequent contributor to TrumpetHerald, runs a music store in Kansas City, MO -- Austin Custom Brass. The store has an online presence and does a lot of business through email. I'm sure Trent could fit your son with an appropriate instrument within your budget. I would trust him implicitly.
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bhornFree
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...the joke about "ask 10 trumpet players about xxx, you'll get 11 opinions" is a bit light on the number of opinions, no?

FWIW I just picked my kids up from camp and told them about this thread. I gave them the OP's scenario and choice of (1) pick the "fancy" looking trumpet or (2) pick the solid beginner trumpet that works fine. Then asked them if they were the dad, what would they do? They both chose 2.

I then asked horn boy then if he was OK keeping his 6D then, and he looked stricken (I had assured him his answer wouldn't change the outcome). He didn't want to seem like a hypocrite though. Trumpet boy agreed (and has taken marvelous care of his Strad fwiw). Even though they understand intellectually, it still matters. Who knew kids value things that are unimportant to adults? But I'm not sure it would have mattered if they'd stuck to just their school band.

Here's the thing though. The Yamahas are pretty tough. Unless you throw it out a window of a moving bus, it will probably hold up pretty well. And if you buy used, the resale value is very stable and you'll be out pretty much nothing when you sell. That gives you some runway to see if your budding trumpet player will end up running with the "silver" crowd or if playing is more of a casual thing.

Epilogue: We did keep the 2335; it sounds very good. Son uses it for marching band or sketchy band trips. I use it in my community band if son is away and I can't borrow his strad.

You'd probably be fine either way you go as long as the instrument functions properly and sounds good.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember in my beginning band classs roughly 6 years ago thinking my Bach TR300H2 and plastic hard case were plain and weren’t that cool. I remember one kid had a sliver trumpet and another had a Bach Mercedes II, and I can recall thinking that I’d rather have either one of those horns than my Bach because they looked cooler. What everyone is saying is totally right, cosmetics mean a lot more to a kid just starting out. As for cornets, nobody played one in my beginning band class. I remember the school owned a couple of beat up cornets and some of the kids whose parents opted to rent from the school had to use them whenever the school didn’t have enough trumpets to rent out.
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jadickson
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: Student trumpet help! Reply with quote

Mmac wrote:
Hi I’m looking for your expert advice... my 10 year old will be starting the trumpet and has no prior experience... I’ve been researching and see a variety of Yamaha models (2330, 2320, 2335, 200AD). Which of those if any would you choose? If you have other suggestions aside from these I’m open to them! Thanks so much for your help! Signed clueless trumpet mom!


Every few years, Yamaha changes the model number of their beginning trumpet. They change the design a little bit and change the model number. But if it begins with 2, it is the student trumpet. The 200AD is the current one, I believe. It’s a really good trumpet.

The Yamaha student trumpet usually comes with a 11B4 mouthpiece. This may or may not work with your kid. I find it very small and shallow. I want to let them try it as well as a Bach 7C or Bach 10 1/2C to see which one fits in the best.

I also really like the King student trumpet. It’s easy enough for a kid to start on, but it can take more air, so when they get into high school marching band and they want to play loud, it will still work for them.

I’m a middle school band director and would be happy to help you in any way, just send me a PM.
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