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BBTP Regular Member
Joined: 09 May 2016 Posts: 36
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:24 am Post subject: Bach Question |
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I am in the market for a new Bach.
Bach LT180S 43 With 25-O Leadpipe VS. Bach LT180S 72 With 25-O Leadpipe
Will be used mainly for commercial playing but also occasional brass quintet work.
What are your opinions?
Thank you all for your responses |
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Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 970
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:17 am Post subject: |
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I say Bach 72 with a 43 leadpipe. But, so what? |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2012 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Bach 43GH with 43 leadpipe _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:51 am Post subject: |
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You probably noticed that so far you’re probably not getting the type of response you may have been looking for. The reason? There are WAY to many variables and WAY too many subjective individual preferences regarding what someone wants in a horn to really be able to help you much with this.
Most people would probably say to go find a few examples of each model, play them and see what YOU like.
Many of us here, myself included, tend to get pretty wrapped up in what model of what horn will work best for what. The truth is, pretty much any pro horn in good mechanical condition can be used for most anything, IT DEPENDS ON THE PLAYER. And no, that’s certainly not a big revelation.😉
Sure, certain horn characteristics might lend themselves to certain genres, but again....... .
Because, just as an example, the fact that I don’t currently happen to prefer Bach in general doesn’t mean much of anything. I believe either of those two you mentioned would likely work for you, but YOU need to try them. Heck, they probably would work for me too.
Not very helpful, but that’s my 2 cents.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2306 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:39 am Post subject: |
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I'l agree, there are too many variables, and possibilities.
Even if we just stay in the Bach family -- a Commercial Bach or even one of the 37 Anniversary models IMO would be a better place to start than the two you've mentioned.
How commercial? If you're looking for a truly lead sound, it'll probably not satisfactory in the BQ. Though, I have used my Bach Commercial trumpet in a BQ setting and find it does very well.
An answer that you'll have to find on your own. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8331 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:52 am Post subject: |
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In general, I go with the one that plays and sounds better. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2659 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:44 am Post subject: |
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I play in a brass group where the other trumpet plays a standard weight Bach 43 and I play (almost) a Bach 72HG. Very different beasts, and we blend together rather well.
Get the horn that works for you, although i would suggest the 25-O pipes are rather a lot of work) _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Lawler Bb Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2002 Posts: 1134 Location: Milwaukee, WI
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jengstrom Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2008 Posts: 427 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I own both horns in question. I love both. Not much help, am I?
Both are tremendously versatile. Both are fun to play. Both have that Bach sound.
OK, differences:
The 43* projects over a big band a little better than the 72*. However, that’s not to say the 72* can’t be heard. Remember, the 72* was the staple of the NYC studio crowd in the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s.
The 72* has a slightly fatter (some use the word “darker”) than the 43*, but it lights up when pushed. The blow of the 72* is slightly more open. That doesn’t mean the 43* is tight; i would use the term “slightly more compact”. It certainly isn’t like a 37.
It really boils down to your preference. Play both if you can.
Have fun testing them out, and good luck.
John _________________ Bach 43*
Bach 72*
Bach Chicago C
Yamaha YTR-761 D/Eb
Kanstul 1525
Bach 196 picc |
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Jon Arnold Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2019
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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I play a Bach Commercial and I am very happy with it. I play mostly jazz, big band, and in horn sections for Blues and Rock bands. The bronze bell offers a great variety of colors and blends well with other horns. I am very pleased with it and have played in wind band and church orchestra. I find the trumpet to work well in all these settings. |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 830 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Need to find what works for YOU. I prefer the Bach Stradivarius NY7 ... if you are going to spend 3K ... pick what YOU like best. _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Lynn Nicholson Model Monette Prana XLT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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Christian K. Peters Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2001 Posts: 1528 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:26 pm Post subject: Bach question |
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Hello all,
Coming from a Schilke guy, if you do only a little quintet and the rest commercial, I would vote for the 43. I think you should really try the S33HD though before you pull the trigger. _________________ Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976 |
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Clark Kent Regular Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2008 Posts: 12 Location: Singapore
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Do check out the 25 bell while you are at it. Prefer it to 43* |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2424
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:44 am Post subject: |
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Clark Kent wrote: | Do check out the 25 bell while you are at it. Prefer it to 43* |
+1
The 25 was my first thought when I saw the goal at the top of this thread. I find it remarkably flexible with changes in mouthpiece, and the effectively lightweight body with the inertia of a standard bell makes it responsive yet stable. An MK SR slide and changing out the standard 25 pipe can open up the blow quite a bit.
But, that's just me (and apparently one other). You really have to try them and see what works.. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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jengstrom Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2008 Posts: 427 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Bach question |
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Christian K. Peters wrote: | Hello all,
Coming from a Schilke guy, if you do only a little quintet and the rest commercial, I would vote for the 43. I think you should really try the S33HD though before you pull the trigger. |
I preferred the S22HD over the S33HD, but basically I agree with this. However, if you choose the 43*, don't be misled by the folks that say the 43* can't be used for orchestral work. As long as you can produce a relaxed, resonant sound (and not a pinched sound), the 43* will work fine.
John _________________ Bach 43*
Bach 72*
Bach Chicago C
Yamaha YTR-761 D/Eb
Kanstul 1525
Bach 196 picc |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2641 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:43 am Post subject: |
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Why the 25-o lead-pipe?
The intonation of the 43 and 72 bells is not the same.
See where the upper G and 4th D sit on both horns.
Then check out how stable the pitch is when making ppp——-fff crescendos and dims. Did that for each horn.
Honestly there are differences between the bells, but the differences in general between two horns with the same parts can be as pronounced.
The 25-o pipe is the weak link in that scenario. _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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Manuel de los Campos Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 649 Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:36 am Post subject: |
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I was amazed by the sound of the 43* bell, actually to me the best sounding Bach I ever played, used it for both commercial and orchestral work.
But I had to sell her since she was way too much free blowing to me
The 180/37 I found an easier player
The Bach 180/43* I played had a 25A lead pipe, my ol' 180/37 a standard 25 lead pipe
https://www.bachloyalist.com/bach-trumpets-leadpipes/
If you are a strong player you should give a Bach 180/43* a try for sure! _________________ Technology alone is a poor substitute for experience. (Richard Sachs) |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2641 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:54 am Post subject: |
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So it was a C/Bb convertible?
The 25a pipe is a shorter than Bb length pipe. It’s a long C trumpet pipe though so for a convertible C/Bb that would make sense. _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2012 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:57 am Post subject: |
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@ Manuel de ls Campos: interesting how everyone is different - I really like Bachs but every 37 I played always felt stuffy ... my 43GH got even better after I had the 43 leadpipe put on, it really opened the horn up. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry |
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Manuel de los Campos Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 649 Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:09 am Post subject: |
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lipshurt wrote: | So it was a C/Bb convertible?
The 25a pipe is a shorter than Bb length pipe. It’s a long C trumpet pipe though so for a convertible C/Bb that would make sense. |
I bought the 43* with that 25A lead pipe second hand, the previous owner had it tweakend by Adams Brass. It was not a C/Bb horn, it was a straight Bb trumpet.
I sold it to a professional orchestra player who found it easier to play than his 180/37 go figure! _________________ Technology alone is a poor substitute for experience. (Richard Sachs) |
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