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BBTP
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:24 am    Post subject: Bach Question Reply with quote

I am in the market for a new Bach.

Bach LT180S 43 With 25-O Leadpipe VS. Bach LT180S 72 With 25-O Leadpipe

Will be used mainly for commercial playing but also occasional brass quintet work.


What are your opinions?

Thank you all for your responses
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Liberty Lips
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say Bach 72 with a 43 leadpipe. But, so what?
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bach 43GH with 43 leadpipe
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You probably noticed that so far you’re probably not getting the type of response you may have been looking for. The reason? There are WAY to many variables and WAY too many subjective individual preferences regarding what someone wants in a horn to really be able to help you much with this.
Most people would probably say to go find a few examples of each model, play them and see what YOU like.

Many of us here, myself included, tend to get pretty wrapped up in what model of what horn will work best for what. The truth is, pretty much any pro horn in good mechanical condition can be used for most anything, IT DEPENDS ON THE PLAYER. And no, that’s certainly not a big revelation.😉
Sure, certain horn characteristics might lend themselves to certain genres, but again....... .

Because, just as an example, the fact that I don’t currently happen to prefer Bach in general doesn’t mean much of anything. I believe either of those two you mentioned would likely work for you, but YOU need to try them. Heck, they probably would work for me too.

Not very helpful, but that’s my 2 cents.

Brad
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'l agree, there are too many variables, and possibilities.

Even if we just stay in the Bach family -- a Commercial Bach or even one of the 37 Anniversary models IMO would be a better place to start than the two you've mentioned.

How commercial? If you're looking for a truly lead sound, it'll probably not satisfactory in the BQ. Though, I have used my Bach Commercial trumpet in a BQ setting and find it does very well.

An answer that you'll have to find on your own.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In general, I go with the one that plays and sounds better.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play in a brass group where the other trumpet plays a standard weight Bach 43 and I play (almost) a Bach 72HG. Very different beasts, and we blend together rather well.

Get the horn that works for you, although i would suggest the 25-O pipes are rather a lot of work)
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Lawler Bb
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bach 43* with 25-O pipe all day. 72* really gets wide and diffused with a medium to large mouthpiece. I’ve owned both.
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jengstrom
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own both horns in question. I love both. Not much help, am I?

Both are tremendously versatile. Both are fun to play. Both have that Bach sound.

OK, differences:

The 43* projects over a big band a little better than the 72*. However, that’s not to say the 72* can’t be heard. Remember, the 72* was the staple of the NYC studio crowd in the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s.

The 72* has a slightly fatter (some use the word “darker”) than the 43*, but it lights up when pushed. The blow of the 72* is slightly more open. That doesn’t mean the 43* is tight; i would use the term “slightly more compact”. It certainly isn’t like a 37.

It really boils down to your preference. Play both if you can.

Have fun testing them out, and good luck.

John
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Jon Arnold
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play a Bach Commercial and I am very happy with it. I play mostly jazz, big band, and in horn sections for Blues and Rock bands. The bronze bell offers a great variety of colors and blends well with other horns. I am very pleased with it and have played in wind band and church orchestra. I find the trumpet to work well in all these settings.
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RussellDDixon
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Need to find what works for YOU. I prefer the Bach Stradivarius NY7 ... if you are going to spend 3K ... pick what YOU like best.
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Christian K. Peters
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:26 pm    Post subject: Bach question Reply with quote

Hello all,
Coming from a Schilke guy, if you do only a little quintet and the rest commercial, I would vote for the 43. I think you should really try the S33HD though before you pull the trigger.
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Clark Kent
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do check out the 25 bell while you are at it. Prefer it to 43*
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clark Kent wrote:
Do check out the 25 bell while you are at it. Prefer it to 43*


+1

The 25 was my first thought when I saw the goal at the top of this thread. I find it remarkably flexible with changes in mouthpiece, and the effectively lightweight body with the inertia of a standard bell makes it responsive yet stable. An MK SR slide and changing out the standard 25 pipe can open up the blow quite a bit.

But, that's just me (and apparently one other). You really have to try them and see what works..
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jengstrom
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: Bach question Reply with quote

Christian K. Peters wrote:
Hello all,
Coming from a Schilke guy, if you do only a little quintet and the rest commercial, I would vote for the 43. I think you should really try the S33HD though before you pull the trigger.


I preferred the S22HD over the S33HD, but basically I agree with this. However, if you choose the 43*, don't be misled by the folks that say the 43* can't be used for orchestral work. As long as you can produce a relaxed, resonant sound (and not a pinched sound), the 43* will work fine.

John
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why the 25-o lead-pipe?

The intonation of the 43 and 72 bells is not the same.

See where the upper G and 4th D sit on both horns.

Then check out how stable the pitch is when making ppp——-fff crescendos and dims. Did that for each horn.

Honestly there are differences between the bells, but the differences in general between two horns with the same parts can be as pronounced.

The 25-o pipe is the weak link in that scenario.
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was amazed by the sound of the 43* bell, actually to me the best sounding Bach I ever played, used it for both commercial and orchestral work.
But I had to sell her since she was way too much free blowing to me
The 180/37 I found an easier player

The Bach 180/43* I played had a 25A lead pipe, my ol' 180/37 a standard 25 lead pipe

https://www.bachloyalist.com/bach-trumpets-leadpipes/

If you are a strong player you should give a Bach 180/43* a try for sure!
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it was a C/Bb convertible?
The 25a pipe is a shorter than Bb length pipe. It’s a long C trumpet pipe though so for a convertible C/Bb that would make sense.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Manuel de ls Campos: interesting how everyone is different - I really like Bachs but every 37 I played always felt stuffy ... my 43GH got even better after I had the 43 leadpipe put on, it really opened the horn up.
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lipshurt wrote:
So it was a C/Bb convertible?
The 25a pipe is a shorter than Bb length pipe. It’s a long C trumpet pipe though so for a convertible C/Bb that would make sense.


I bought the 43* with that 25A lead pipe second hand, the previous owner had it tweakend by Adams Brass. It was not a C/Bb horn, it was a straight Bb trumpet.
I sold it to a professional orchestra player who found it easier to play than his 180/37 go figure!
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