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Open letter to the moderators



 
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:46 am    Post subject: Open letter to the moderators Reply with quote

Given that this attempt to reach the moderators, whomever that select group may be, by way of PM as indicated to be the proper communication channel in this forum, sat for an ENTIRE MONTH NOW in Outbox without anyone having even the courtesy to read it, I post it now as open letter (who knows - maybe I wont be allowed to post again, but the irresponsible action of the moderators deserves comment):

To the moderators:

The obliteration of the Kanstul thread is a dis-service to the trumpet community and history in general. Perhaps the thread had posts that broke some rules, but if you are truly worried about defaming a business, then why has the thread "Bach . . . .Really?" been left unmolested to be cited in other threads as a means of saying "don't buy a Bach"?

The Kanstul thread was a historical source record set down in real time and contributed to by many of the key players and knowledgeable observers starting at the moment that the decision was announced by Kanstul until the majority of its former assets began arriving in Kansas City. It captured the personal statements of people who were impacted in their business like Flip Oakes. It captured the genuine and surprising reaction of key competitor Getzen in the voices of both Getzen brothers. It captured Mike Corrigan's surprise announcement of his acquisition. It captured the thoughts and insights of Lee Adams, another of those impacted and also involved in the resolution. And, while "gossip" may be objectionable I guess, it captured in real time the rumors, and the aborted attempts to buy by folks I wont mention now, and therein reflected how the greater community was both fascinated and concerned by the process as events unfolded.

Never before has the feelings of people involved and the community at large been so well captured in relation to a musical instrument concern - think of what it would mean to have such a record of when Selmer bought and moved Bach over 3 years, or when Leblanc bought and restructured Holton (also over 3 years), or when the town of Elkhorn lured Frank Holton to move there, offering the plant and grounds for free if he met a payroll target, and the struggle Holton then had because WWI broke out just as he was trying to do so. Can you imagine how the comments might have read as the heavy rains backed up into the basements of the homes Holton built to try and lure his best workers there because Elkhorn had failed to finish the sewer (which he and his staff then dug instead of making instruments)? My guess is the language would have broken your rules. We have no such historical snap-shots though, because there were no forums in those days to capture them.

You have thrown out the baby with the bath water and sacrificed a remarkable historical source record to the detriment of everyone.
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TrumpetMD
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 1803
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:04 am    Post subject: Re: Open letter to the moderators Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
The obliteration of the Kanstul thread is a dis-service to the trumpet community and history in general. Perhaps the thread had posts that broke some rules, but if you are truly worried about defaming a business, then why has the thread "Bach . . . .Really?" been left unmolested to be cited in other threads as a means of saying "don't buy a Bach"?

I think the moderators have a tough job. And I appreciate their efforts to keep these threads within the rules and to keep us on topic.

But I agree that there's an inconsistency here. Bach seems to be fair game on TrumpetHerald, where defamatory statements seem to be allowed, while statements about other organizations seem to be more aggressively policed. In the past, even Kanstul used to be fair game.

Mike
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Moderators
TH Moderator Group


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 3563

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went back to last December and there is no PM from OldSchoolEuph in the Moderators inbox. The team encompasses members from around the world and so usually gets back quickly. If you do not have a response within 24 hours please send another PM. Either it was sent to the wrong username or there was some system glitch and we never received it.

The thread in question cost a lot of time and effort. Three times warnings were issued in the thread plus several PMs to specific people. We cleaned it up numerous times, splitting out wayward posts and asking posters to refrain from repeating. There were multiple PMs and emails about various issues with the thread, from inaccurate information about the company and family members, to inaccurate timelines, to various personal attacks and other off-topic posts. We spent a significant amount of time trying to retain it due to all the good stuff in there.

Ultimately, we all have lives outside TH, do not have infinite time to monitor and clean up threads, and so after the last out-of-line posts the thread was pulled as posters were warned (several times) would happen.

Yes, there was a lot of good info, and some bad, and some just trash. But since repeated attempts to keep it on track and warn posters about inappropriate content failed, it was pulled.

Not aware of similar complaints made about the Bach thread. If there is a problem, PM the Moderators with a link to the offending post(s).
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mdarnton
Regular Member


Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Posts: 25
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there no ability in the software to just lock a thread?
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 3763
Location: Texas, by way of Germany and Hawaii

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does one contact the Moderators by using the "contact" button at the bottom of the page? If so, I used it over a week ago and received no feedback.

Frankly, I figured the Moderators may have opted to just ignore it since the topic material may have been controversial. I would not have chosen to handle it that way, but that was one option.

But, I'm now wondering, in light of the above, that there might be another way to contact the moderators than by using the "contact" button. If so, how please? Thank you.
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Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, and that has happened to a number of threads, but someone still has to go in and clean up the mess. When a firestorm breaks out that means walking through the thread to clean up all the offending posts and warn the appropriate parties. After a few times of that, the mods will usually just dump the thread if it keeps going south instead of spending time cleaning it up.
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JetJaguar
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Joined: 20 Nov 2006
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Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a free-to-use forum, and it is one of a myriad of forums available. We benefit from the popularity and reach of TrumpetHerald, but we don't always get to leverage it as we wish. The mods have responsibilities and do a good job managing things. I'm glad that thread got deleted because it contained personal comments about individuals which were speculative and unwarranted.
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Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 8496
Location: Monument, CO

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Does one contact the Moderators by using the "contact" button at the bottom of the page? If so, I used it over a week ago and received no feedback.

Frankly, I figured the Moderators may have opted to just ignore it since the topic material may have been controversial. I would not have chosen to handle it that way, but that was one option.

But, I'm now wondering, in light of the above, that there might be another way to contact the moderators than by using the "contact" button. If so, how please? Thank you.


No, PM username Moderators. The contact button goes to Todd (sysadmin), I think, but I know at various times either the actual email address was wrong, the system glitched and trashed the contact email, or he was busy/out of town/whatever and did not get it. To reach Todd it is best to send a PM to username trumpetherald. When a PM is sent the receiver should receive an email in addition to the notice and popup when you log in. That way there are multiple "in your face" notices sent about a PM.

There is a sticky about contacting Mods and Todd in this forum, see https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89293

HTH - Don
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, then, just send a normal PM but address it "Moderator"?
Thanks, Don.
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If you haven't lived it, you can't blow it.

"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis." Chet Baker

Yamaha YTR-8310 Z, "Bobby Shew", Trumpet
Conn 80A, "New Wonder", Cornet
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Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 8496
Location: Monument, CO

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
So, then, just send a normal PM but address it "Moderator"?
Thanks, Don.


Yes, to the user (username) Moderators -- note the "s" at the end. All will get an email that there is a new message, and respond accordingly (or not).

Note the various individual sub-forum (Chicago, Callet, etc.) moderators are not the same as the Moderators team that tries to keep this place running. The Moderators team is private.
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moderators wrote:
I went back to last December and there is no PM from OldSchoolEuph in the Moderators inbox. The team encompasses members from around the world and so usually gets back quickly. If you do not have a response within 24 hours please send another PM. Either it was sent to the wrong username or there was some system glitch and we never received it.




Created by clicking on the author field in the horns forum listing page on the line of the Kanstul deletion proclamation (a sticky) and selecting the PM button on the profile page that appears.
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2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1927 Conn 22B NYS
1957 Holton Model 27 Stratodyne
1986 Yamaha YEP-621 (first in US)
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson British Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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JetJaguar
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Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 1289
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a different ID. There's a leading underscore.
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1959 Olds Studio (daughter appropriated the Super Recording)
Kanstul M-B4D-P mp

Take The Double Buzz Survey: https://goo.gl/JUuaNn
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jetjaguar wrote:
That's a different ID. There's a leading underscore.



That's what they have in their profile set-up. I clicked a button following the process.
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2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1927 Conn 22B NYS
1957 Holton Model 27 Stratodyne
1986 Yamaha YEP-621 (first in US)
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson British Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 8496
Location: Monument, CO

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The site was hacked long, long ago and many users, including myself and the Moderators, had to create (or recreate) usernames. The old names had an underscore prepended and are no longer valid accounts though posts from them are still on site.

The correct username (and profile) is Moderators .
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