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Request for Rich Willey and Dave Sheetz



 
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gabriel127
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:07 am    Post subject: Request for Rich Willey and Dave Sheetz Reply with quote

I know that you two guys named in the subject line have demonstrated an interest in carrying on Doc Reinhardt's legacy by spreading information on his teachings and increasing the awareness of them throughout the trumpet world so that it could be kept alive.

One thing that I think would help quite a bit in furthering that cause would be to produce a video that demonstrates how to determine whether a player is a downstream or upstream player using a transparent mouthpiece and a flashlight as Doc used to do.

There is so much misunderstanding out there on this topic. Generally, the vast majority of people (who think that they are versed on Reinhardt) think that they can tell whether a person is downstream or upstream just by looking at the angle of the player's horn as it comes off of the face. And as you well know, this can be deceiving.

I know for a fact that there is a multitude of teachers out there who have heard of the Pivot System and can pronounce it, but if you gave them a quiz on what a pivot really is, or how to recognize a particular type, they'd fail the quiz, without a doubt. If the Pivot System is misunderstood, that's not a healthy thing for the legacy, because if it's misunderstood, it can more easily passed off as incorrect, ineffective, then dismissed over time and eventually forgotten.

It would really be awesome for someone to come up with the kind of video I've mentioned above. Or better yet, how about one that does that, and goes a step further in showing videos with the transparent mouthpieces demonstrating ALL of the types and subtypes?

Back when Doc was teaching, getting a video made would have been a much more costly undertaking and VCRs weren't very common or affordable. I remember in 1984, I paid $600.00 (which is equivalent to $1,500.00 today) for my first VCR. I stopped studying with Doc in 1981, I don't even know what year he quit teaching, but you get my point. But now, 40 years later you can have an idea for a video and have it up YouTube being viewed by millions of people just a couple of hours later.

If Doc had the video technology that is available today, I'm certain that he would have produced such a video. He undoubtedly would have had a whole series of them.

So I think this would be a great way to serve your mission in keep Doc's legacy alive. Sure, there is written stuff out there, but you know as well as I do, the attention spans of human beings have gotten shorter and shorter with each generation. People don't have the patience to read and absorb stuff. And after we're all gone, it'll be even worse. Heck, people have probably already stopped reading this post before getting this far! And besides, I'm sure you're aware of the fact that people learn more and learn better by seeing things demonstrated visually rather than just reading about it or hearing a lecture. Once you see it, now you really understand it and retain it.

I know that I would like to see such a video. When I studied with Doc, he offered me to go through some kind of training to become one of his anointed, or perhaps certified would be a better term (although I don't know whether he actually gave anyone a certificate or not), Pivot System instructors. I declined because I had no interest in becoming a teacher at the time.

Anyway, I think having such a video would cause the trumpet world's level of knowledge about the Pivot System to EXPLODE! So if you're really committed to preserving Doc's legacy and the info on his teachings to be well-known and understood for all eternity, this kind of undertaking would increase anything you've done to this point EXPONENTIALLY!

If those videos are on YouTube, the views can generate income for whatever foundation exists to preserve Doc's legacy.
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gabriel127
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<<< crickets? - - chirp, chirp, chirp - - >>>
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Irving
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how much good a video would do regarding self typing or typing others. I don't think that it is that easy to type somebody according to the Pivot System. Plus, I think that a lot of people might mistype themselves or others which would be quite detrimental. I was typed by Dave Sheetz, and he put me through a battery of tests. If he had typed me according to the pivot that I was using when I walked in to my first lesson, then he would have typed me differently. He came to the conclusion that the pivot I was using was not the correct one, according to what I should have been using. I don't think an instructional video would have been able to show this.

That being said, I'm all for keeping the teachings of Doc Reinhardt alive. Maybe a video explaining his work would be better than an autoinstructional video on how to type brass players.
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gabriel127
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irving wrote:
I don't know how much good a video would do regarding self typing or typing others. I don't think that it is that easy to type somebody according to the Pivot System. Plus, I think that a lot of people might mistype themselves or others which would be quite detrimental. I was typed by Dave Sheetz, and he put me through a battery of tests. If he had typed me according to the pivot that I was using when I walked in to my first lesson, then he would have typed me differently. He came to the conclusion that the pivot I was using was not the correct one, according to what I should have been using. I don't think an instructional video would have been able to show this.

That being said, I'm all for keeping the teachings of Doc Reinhardt alive. Maybe a video explaining his work would be better than an autoinstructional video on how to type brass players.


The point of the video would not be to make it a DIY typing thing necessarily, but more of a "how to do it properly" if you're typing someone else. I don't think it's really possible for someone to see their own chops well enough while going through the paces to type themselves.

The intent of the video(s) would be to make sure that it's done correctly and for people to really better understand what Reinhardt's Pivot System is all about. Videos don't have to be limited to just "typing." There could be a whole array of videos on all of the various aspects and topics of Reinhardt's teachings.

Right now, there are only a few people left who studied with Reinhardt for any length of time. Dave Sheetz seems to be everyone's go-to guy. People such as Dave are not going to be around forever.

OK, so fast forward to 50 years from now. You'll have all of these bastardized interpretations of Reinhardt's system full of people giving second-hand information. OK, they can read the texts, but that doesn't mean that they're truly going to understand it and interpret it correctly. And then applying it in a teaching scenario is another story.

Having videos that not only explain the texts to ensure correct interpretation, but also employ videos.......what better way to cement Doc's legacy?

You've got videos of people explaining Cat Anderson's whisper G, the Stevens/Costello stuff, etc. all over YouTube and several of these people are a bit as they say in Louisiana, "pas tout la." It's like the wild, wild west out there.

Why not have people, good credible sources, who studied directly with Reinhardt making these videos and getting good solid first-hand information out there to do what Doc didn't have the technology to do? Have you ever played the game, telephone? Over time, as stories and methodologies are handed down, they eventually become 180 degrees different from what they were originally. I can easily see that happening. This is especially true of Reinhardt's system because it is far more complicated than any other system out there. I say this because I hear SO many people who never studied with Reinhardt talking about the Pivot System (or their interpretation of it) and their understanding is not even close. The mis-information is outnumbering the accurate information and pretty soon, the mis-information will be all that is left. Having good videos produced by the right sources would prevent that.

I think that in order for someone to truly understand the Pivot System in order to be able to apply it, especially in a teaching scenario, they have to had studied with Doc for at least a year, maybe two depending on the frequency of their lessons.

There are some people out their who might have taken one lesson from Doc, just because they wanted to grace Doc with their wonderful playing or maybe they took two or three lessons with him either to fix a problem, or just to say that they studied with Reinhardt. These are not reliable sources.

A video series would be great--before someone unqualified starts making them.
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BeboppinFool
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gabriel127 wrote:
A video series would be great--before someone unqualified starts making them.

I think you ought to make those videos. Apparently you have plenty of time and ideas. I have neither the time nor the ideas nor the videography chops to turn out a video anybody would want to see.

I think you have nominated yourself.

I second the nomination!

Keep us posted!
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BeboppinFool wrote:
gabriel127 wrote:
A video series would be great--before someone unqualified starts making them.

I think you ought to make those videos. Apparently you have plenty of time and ideas. I have neither the time nor the ideas nor the videography chops to turn out a video anybody would want to see.

I think you have nominated yourself.

I second the nomination!

Keep us posted!


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gabriel127
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha ha. No, I haven't nominated myself. I already mentioned that I never went through Doc's official "Pivot System Instructor Certification Program" if he called it that. I never got into studying the types other than my own as I was only interested in my own progress at the time. I had no interest in becoming a Reinhardt teaching protege. If anyone does a video series, I think it should be someone who DID go through Doc's certification program and someone who is more passionate about Doc's teachings than I am.

The total body of what I've learned over the years consists of a combination of things from many different people. It's not out of the realm of possibility that I might someday produce a series of instructional videos, but the series wouldn't be centered solely around the Pivot System. There might be some short segments containing bits and pieces of it, but nothing dedicated.

It was only a suggestion.....food for thought. Perhaps another certified Pivot System instructor might be interested. Or perhaps it could be a collaborative effort. (Again, I'm not nominating myself)
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would Dave Wilken's video series be the sort of thing you're looking for?
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gabriel127
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched the first chapter video. I'll have to look at the rest of them and see if he get's into all of the types and how much reference is made to Reinhardt. He didn't make any reference to Reinhardt in this first video. My suggestion was made in the spirit of preserving Reinhardt's legacy, not for my edification.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just checking in belatedly to say that the basic idea is great, and it wouldn't have to be a major production or something foisted on the senior scholars in the field, but some video clips intros would be a big help. Text can be hard to understand without seeing someone else do it.

I looked up the Reinhardt method on youtube, and there's not a lot there. One of the first hits is a polemic by--no surprise--Kurt Thompson. There's also some nice materials by Wilken, and the recent seminar where different teaching styles are discussed.

But it would be great if perhaps someone from the next generation of disciples could post some quick clips of the correct way to buzz, Warm Up #57, and the daily trio. There are a lot of folk out there that have a pencil trick, or buzz, or do their own warm up routines, but they're not necessarily done Reinhardt style and for we newbies we can't always tell what's legit. Gabriel127, I don't know your background, but you really might know enough to do some of these.
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