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kozzicomma
Regular Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2018
Posts: 39
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 Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:55 am Post subject: Re: they need to love it |
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| OldSchoolEuph wrote: | | Closest top-tier shop to the OP is Rich Ita's Brass Instrument Workshop in Marietta GA (1822 Lower Roswell Rd.). |
+1 for Rich Ita's shop, great place! (I'm local and use him quite a bit) |
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plankowner110
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 3620
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| bl2407 wrote: | | ..........There is a Xeno for sale right for a good price because it has a dent where a color guard flag hit it; accidents will happen.
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Dents on a trumpet are so easily repaired by a full-service repair shop, so don't let any dents worry you.
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C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763 |
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 666
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:27 pm Post subject: repair |
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Are you able to take a photo of the dents on that trumpet and send to the repairman? Good to get a ballpark estimate , usually repairs are not that expensive.
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King 603 cornet
Yamaha 2330 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B mouthpiece
Yamaha 11 e mouthpiece
Bach 5 B mouthpiece |
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HERMOKIWI
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2581
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:57 am Post subject: |
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Since when is "a good playing horn" a rare find requiring a Mayo Clinic level of expertise to identify?
Assertions that a decent horn in good working condition (the market is filled with them) has "limitations" that "hold a student back" or "is not equal to the music the student is playing" or some other similar nonsense is mind boggling.
For as long as I've been playing (59 years) "blaming it on the horn" has been the world's most fashionable excuse for a player's failure to perform and, based on some of the responses here, that worn out excuse isn't going to die anytime soon.
The most important difference between a decent student level horn in good working condition and a decent pro level horn in good working condition is the sound. A fuller and richer sound can be produced on a pro level horn. However, the skill level necessary to produce pro level results is the same regardless of the horn. That's why focusing on the development of skill is far more important than focusing on the horn. A great player will sound great on any decent trumpet in good working condition. Until you sound as good on your horn as a great player would sound on your horn it's not the horn that's "holding you back."
I don't think it serves any player's best interests to perpetuate the myth that switching to a different horn is going to make any significant difference in the player's development of skill, that there is some "magic" horn out there that will create an instantaneous quantum leap in results.
Trumpet is a difficult instrument to master. Progress tends to be very slow. I'm all for playing on high quality instruments but there is no substitute for diligent study and practice of the fundamentals necessary to produce good results. For the student the horn is less than 1% of the formula as long as it's a decent horn in good working condition yet the horn seems to command a tremendous and highly disproportionate (obsessive) percentage of the attention.
Horns don't play themselves. What do you tell the student when they "upgrade" and the expected miracle doesn't instantaneously happen?
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | Since when is "a good playing horn" a rare find requiring a Mayo Clinic level of expertise to identify?
Assertions that a decent horn in good working condition (the market is filled with them) has "limitations" that "hold a student back" or "is not equal to the music the student is playing" or some other similar nonsense is mind boggling.
For as long as I've been playing (59 years) "blaming it on the horn" has been the world's most fashionable excuse for a player's failure to perform and, based on some of the responses here, that worn out excuse isn't going to die anytime soon.
The most important difference between a decent student level horn in good working condition and a decent pro level horn in good working condition is the sound. A fuller and richer sound can be produced on a pro level horn. However, the skill level necessary to produce pro level results is the same regardless of the horn. That's why focusing on the development of skill is far more important than focusing on the horn. A great player will sound great on any decent trumpet in good working condition. Until you sound as good on your horn as a great player would sound on your horn it's not the horn that's "holding you back."
I don't think it serves any player's best interests to perpetuate the myth that switching to a different horn is going to make any significant difference in the player's development of skill, that there is some "magic" horn out there that will create an instantaneous quantum leap in results.
Trumpet is a difficult instrument to master. Progress tends to be very slow. I'm all for playing on high quality instruments but there is no substitute for diligent study and practice of the fundamentals necessary to produce good results. For the student the horn is less than 1% of the formula as long as it's a decent horn in good working condition yet the horn seems to command a tremendous and highly disproportionate (obsessive) percentage of the attention.
Horns don't play themselves. What do you tell the student when they "upgrade" and the expected miracle doesn't instantaneously happen? |
This.
Unfortunately, I think it’s even worse today, our society has morphed into expecting instant gratification and rewards (“participation trophies) for doing next to nothing.
Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9014
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:56 am Post subject: |
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And, to boot, everyone knows it's not the horn . . . it's the mouthpiece. 
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | And, to boot, everyone knows it's not the horn . . . it's the mouthpiece. |
Wait, I thought “it’s not the arrow, it’s the India....er, Native American”....😉
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12662
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | | Horns don't play themselves. What do you tell the student when they "upgrade" and the expected miracle doesn't instantaneously happen? |
There are a lot of relevant questions which we can’t answer since we don’t know the OP, his daughter, her teacher, nor her horn.
What if the horn has worn valves and they stick at all the wrong times? Or the horn is badly out of tune with itself, like my high school trumpet? Or the gap is badly incorrect?
Or what about the natural bump we get when we get a new instrument?
I suspect the OP isn’t “expecting a miracle to instantaneously” happen, but does want to reward his daughter on her achievements.
As to the question “what do you tell...”, I tell them the same thing I tell them when they blow a solo in performance or are discouraged due to lack of progress.
I tell them to spend more time practicing.  |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:23 am Post subject: |
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[quote/] HERMOKIWI wrote:
Horns don't play themselves. What do you tell the student when they "upgrade" and the expected miracle doesn't instantaneously happen?
[quote/]
Maybe I took this out of context, but I try to make sure students AND PARENTS don’t expect any new horn “miracle” to begin with, and unfortunately some of them do.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12662
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | | Quote: | HERMOKIWI wrote:
Horns don't play themselves. What do you tell the student when they "upgrade" and the expected miracle doesn't instantaneously happen?
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Maybe I took this out of context, but I try to make sure students AND PARENTS don’t expect any new horn “miracle” to begin with, and unfortunately some of them do.
Brad |
Brad, I think we probably agree in general.
While hermowiki has some valid points, in my opinion the whole post really has no application to the OP. Nowhere that I could find in the OP’s posts did the OP state the condition of his daughter’s horn. Nowhere did he express he expected a miracle to happen after the upgrade.
In my experience I have not run across people blaming it on the horn, certainly not as often as is implied in hermowiki’s post. With the possible exception of broken spit keys or sticking valves.
All that said, if the OP can afford to purchase a newer horn for his daughter there is nothing wrong with getting the best horn for her to develop on. It will certainly not hold her back anymore than a student horn. |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Quote: | HERMOKIWI wrote:
Horns don't play themselves. What do you tell the student when they "upgrade" and the expected miracle doesn't instantaneously happen?
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Maybe I took this out of context, but I try to make sure students AND PARENTS don’t expect any new horn “miracle” to begin with, and unfortunately some of them do.
Brad |
Brad, I think we probably agree in general.
While hermowiki has some valid points, in my opinion the whole post really has no application to the OP. Nowhere that I could find in the OP’s posts did the OP state the condition of his daughter’s horn. Nowhere did he express he expected a miracle to happen after the upgrade.
In my experience I have not run across people blaming it on the horn, certainly not as often as is implied in hermowiki’s post. With the possible exception of broken spit keys or sticking valves.
All that said, if the OP can afford to purchase a newer horn for his daughter there is nothing wrong with getting the best horn for her to develop on. It will certainly not hold her back anymore than a student horn. |
I think we’re probably on the same page.
I HAVE had parents directly ask me if a pro horn will be “easier (for the student) to play”, and assuming the horn they are using now is mechanically ok, of course I tell them no.
Where I teach most of my lessons currently, there is generally plenty of parental disposable income, and it’s VERY common for them to buy a new Strad or Xeno for a student just beginning their second year. I certainly have no problem with that, but parents need to know the truth......not what was said or at least implied by a salesperson in a music store. And no, not ALL retail music store people do that, but some do.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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HERMOKIWI
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2581
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Quote: | HERMOKIWI wrote:
Horns don't play themselves. What do you tell the student when they "upgrade" and the expected miracle doesn't instantaneously happen?
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Maybe I took this out of context, but I try to make sure students AND PARENTS don’t expect any new horn “miracle” to begin with, and unfortunately some of them do.
Brad |
Brad, I think we probably agree in general.
While hermowiki has some valid points, in my opinion the whole post really has no application to the OP. Nowhere that I could find in the OP’s posts did the OP state the condition of his daughter’s horn. Nowhere did he express he expected a miracle to happen after the upgrade.
In my experience I have not run across people blaming it on the horn, certainly not as often as is implied in hermowiki’s post. With the possible exception of broken spit keys or sticking valves.
All that said, if the OP can afford to purchase a newer horn for his daughter there is nothing wrong with getting the best horn for her to develop on. It will certainly not hold her back anymore than a student horn. |
My post was not addressed to the OP directly. It was addressed to comments/suggestions made by many people responding to the OP by grossly overstating the role of the horn in student skill development, grossly overstating the complexities of identifying a decent horn in good playing condition and grossly understating the role of diligent study and practice.
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HERMOKIWI |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12662
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Quote: | HERMOKIWI wrote:
Horns don't play themselves. What do you tell the student when they "upgrade" and the expected miracle doesn't instantaneously happen?
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Maybe I took this out of context, but I try to make sure students AND PARENTS don’t expect any new horn “miracle” to begin with, and unfortunately some of them do.
Brad |
Brad, I think we probably agree in general.
While hermowiki has some valid points, in my opinion the whole post really has no application to the OP. Nowhere that I could find in the OP’s posts did the OP state the condition of his daughter’s horn. Nowhere did he express he expected a miracle to happen after the upgrade.
In my experience I have not run across people blaming it on the horn, certainly not as often as is implied in hermowiki’s post. With the possible exception of broken spit keys or sticking valves.
All that said, if the OP can afford to purchase a newer horn for his daughter there is nothing wrong with getting the best horn for her to develop on. It will certainly not hold her back anymore than a student horn. |
My post was not addressed to the OP directly. It was addressed to comments/suggestions made by many people responding to the OP by grossly overstating the role of the horn in student skill development, grossly overstating the complexities of identifying a decent horn in good playing condition and grossly understating the role of diligent study and practice. |
Understood. One reason I still play a Bach 37 similar to the one I purchased in '72 is that I believe it is good enough for my skill set and isn't limiting me. |
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bl2407
New Member
Joined: 02 Aug 2019
Posts: 6
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Just wanted to thank everyone for their support and let all of you know I found a trumpet for my daughter. A very nice band parent has a daughter leaving for college and he offered me her Getzen Eterna 700 for an incredibly low price. The trumpet is in great shape and is just the upgrade I was looking for.
Thanks again for the warm welcome to forum and all of the great advice.
Brian |
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 666
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:04 pm Post subject: Excellent purchase |
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Congrats on purchasing a Getzen 700 Eterna II trumpet for your daughter.
If you don't mind, please keep us informed on how she enjoys playing her new trumpet in band.
I know she will enjoy playing her Getzen 700 eterna trumpet.
_________________
King 603 cornet
Yamaha 2330 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B mouthpiece
Yamaha 11 e mouthpiece
Bach 5 B mouthpiece |
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