Yamaha 8335 LA venturi

[agroovin48]

Does anyone out there know what the venturi measurement is on a Yamaha 8335 LA? All the discussions I have looked at never reveal what it is, only that it is huge, a sewer pipe, something that you could fall into etc. What is it? I would really like to know.
There are so many leadpipe discussions and they are all so subjective to the individual preferences of the player. What works for one will not work for another. Thanks for any input you can provide.
_________________
agroovin48

Alan Cahill

1933 Conn Victor 80A Cornet
King Legend 2070
Adams A1V2

[agroovin48]

Hey out there. Forget it. I am going to the source where I should have started, Yamaha.
_________________
agroovin48

Alan Cahill

1933 Conn Victor 80A Cornet
King Legend 2070
Adams A1V2

[yourbrass]

As far as I know, it's an ML pipe with a normal-type of venturi. Probably around .348" to start and .460" on the large end. I've played a number of these horns and they have resistance, they don't feel especially large.

The actual taper is what's proprietary to Yamaha.
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[agroovin48]

After contacting Yamaha over two weeks ago I finally emailed the warranty dept. and corresponded with Mark Sorlie. He advised me that he does not have those measurements and that they are in the factory in Japan.

So, I did a little improvising and used a surgical clamp as a caliper, got inside the venturi and locked it in place then put it on a engineering ruler. I repeated the process several times to make sure that I was consistent in my method and that I had the clamp snug up against the inside of the lead pipe about a quarter of an inch into it.

The venturi consistently measured out at 22/64 or 11/32 or .343. It is possible that I could be off a thousandths or two, but there it is. It is far from a sewer pipe or huge. Yamaha describes the lead pipe as a modified Z lead pipe.

An 8310Z and a XenoII 8335RGS also measured out at .343.
_________________
agroovin48

Alan Cahill

1933 Conn Victor 80A Cornet
King Legend 2070
Adams A1V2

[maynard-46]

Actually a trusted Yamaha employee said that the Shew I had a venturi of .341 and the new II version they went a little smaller to .340.

Butch
_________________
TRUMPE: YAMAHA Lacq. "Shew Gen II" / Legends .585 "CatMaster" Top / KT "TKO" BB / Reeves #5.75 Sleeve.
FLUGELHORN: ADAMS Custom "F1" / Legends .585 "CatMaster FL.

[Matthew Anklan]

Thanks for the info. I play a 8335LA and never found it to feel as large as others have described it. It plays like a trumpet. A very good trumpet.
_________________
Matthew Anklan
www.matthewanklan.com
Patrick Mouthpieces Artist

[OldSchoolEuph]

When you get down to discrepancies of a thousandth or two, it is important to remember that metals are elastic. The degree to which the tubing attempts to return to its prior shape/state after being formed on the mandrel is going to vary a tiny bit day to day based on any anomalies in the material (at one time Yamaha had quite a bit of variability in their brass, though the pipes we are talking about are made in Japan so this should not be as much of an issue presently), the ambient temperature, temperature of the material, and conditions in which the tubing was stored immediately prior to forming. Additionally the state of the electrical supply to the machine can have a significant influence on the force and speed of forming, which factor into the metal's reflex (yes, they will probably have some force regulation, but for drawing tubing, on most it will have a fair tolerance).

Ultimately, if you obsessively clean your horn enough to maintain to .001", chances are your efforts will ultimately wear it out by more than that - so the precision analysis really need only go so far.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[agroovin48]

The issues of wear from cleaning do not apply as this is a new trumpet.

The small differences of a couple of thousandths may be attributed to my somewhat crude measuring technique. Lacking a true inside caliper I substituted a surgical clamp. Once it was in the venturi about a quarter of an inch I spread it until it was tight against the inside of the lead pipe then I locked it in place with another clamp. I did this at least a half a dozen times to make sure that I did not vary in my procedure. Each time the spread of the clamp measured 22/64 or .343. The possibility of a slight error is possible as a .001 measurement is smaller than my eyes can see.

In any event, there you have it. The legend of the huge, ego driven venturi of the Yamaha 8335LA is laid to rest as fiction.
_________________
agroovin48

Alan Cahill

1933 Conn Victor 80A Cornet
King Legend 2070
Adams A1V2

[timcates]

my understanding is that the LA is a fairly standard ML bore instrument with a large-bore tuning slide (leadpipe and tuning slide both being Bob Malone creations)...

I do notice that I feel like I’m falling into the horn a bit more than on some others if I’m out of shape...such a great sounding and versatile instrument...

[lipshurt]

Take a stainless “Parker” brand pen, from staples store etc, and draw a line of erasable ink down the side. Gently insert into the receiver until it touches the lead pipe. Pull it out and will a perfect thin line where the ink was removed. Measure the pen barrel at that point with a caliper. Exact measurement every time

This is the pen you want:

https://www.jetpens.com/Parker-Jotter-Ballpoint-Pen-Stainless-Steel-Medium-Point/pd/18734?gclid=Cj0KCQjws7TqBRDgARIsAAHLHP5QwpjrXYfl1p_6Rg5BjDc3GEHDACPhjXvnCHAlw74I6Go_IZKImb0aAt8dEALw_wcB
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt

[agroovin48]

I just happened to have a Parker Jotter and checked out the pen method. It still measures out at .343
_________________
agroovin48

Alan Cahill

1933 Conn Victor 80A Cornet
King Legend 2070
Adams A1V2

[RussellDDixon]

[yourbrass]

[lipshurt]

Yourbrass is correct as usual

I have a real nice playing Selmer B700 from the 70’s. That horn has a .359 Venturi. It’s a .463 bore. I played it on a salsa gig and playing a loud full power high G on the last song hurt my lip, and it took weeks even months to get back. Never played it again after that until last week I tried it out for a few minutes. Played great, but I put it away
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt

[ScottA]

The most accurate way to measure a venturi size is by using a certified set of pin gauges. Our shop has a set that runs from .251"-.500" in .001 increments. I believe you can purchase individuals as well but am not certain. I can't imagine too many other methods being very accurate.

With that being said, as a GR consultant for many years I measured a wide variety of instruments using these pin gauges. The largest by far was a Courtois "C" that was .363" and the smallest was a Connstellation from 1955 that measured .325". The great majority were right around .344/.345

My experience with the the 8335LA model both as a player and with measurements is that is larger than average. I know when I first played one I thought I would fall right into it! I have only measured a couple and they were both around .351 which is certainly larger than normal for a ML B-flat horn. There is always a chance that something smaller slipped by but with the incredible consistency that we see from Yamaha I think that would be doubtful. Hopefully you can find a set of the gauges and get a "no doubt" reading of your horns venturi.
_________________
Scott Apelgren
Indialantic, FL

[nyctrumpeter]

As far as what I understand, Wayne"s pipe opening is larger than you think it is at least at .350". He prefers to have an open blow up front than down the pipe.
_________________
CG Benge @1975
Reeves Custom
Torpedo Bags

[agroovin48]

Since I started this thread I thought that a lot of questions had pretty well been answered, but as time has gone by I am not confident in that. Recently, I queried Yamaha again and went through three attempts to get information on the exact measurement. The last time they replied they told me that they could not share that information with me because it was "confidential."

Admittedly, my measurement techniques were crude and I am sure I could have been off a few thousandths. The only solace I had was the repeating measurement that I got with the various techniques that I tried.

If pin guages have been used on two different horns that measured out at .351 I would take that as a more accurate measurement than my crude methods and I would accede to that as a more correct measurement. Does anyone else have one to share?

Why would the lead pipe ventui measurement be confidential? Isn't it the taper that would be confidential?
_________________
agroovin48

Alan Cahill

1933 Conn Victor 80A Cornet
King Legend 2070
Adams A1V2

[Liberty Lips]

Does anyone know the venturi size of the Kanstul 1600? Rumor has it that it was a 43 leadpipe with an enlarged venturi, but I never heard how enlarged it was. Rumor also has it that Wayne still prefers that horn over his signature model Yamaha, but since he gets paid good money he plays the Yamaha in public.

Corporations are generally pretty stingy about giving out any sort of information. I suppose the fact that Asian manufacturers feel no compunction about replicating products of any kind, I suppose that kind of sentiment is justified.

[highscreamer]

I concur with nyctrumpeter. In fact I have two YTR-8335 LA trumpets. Using Jason Harrelson's venturi measurement tool, I get .352 on both. The tool measures in steps and therefore has a tolerance of .003. That means the venturi is at least .352" but less than .355". These are the biggest venturis I have measured on currently produced horns. Here are other readings I had done:

Yamaha YTR-8335 LA: .352
1974 Bach Stradivarius 37: .346
Bach Stradivarius 25O: .349
1977 Schilke B5: .343
1960 Olds Recording: .352
1966 Olds Recording: .352
Kanstul Fullerton:.349
1978 Yamaha YTR-636: .346
1967 Selmer K-Modified: .349
1950's Besson 2-20: .349
DEG Signature 2000: .343

[LittleRusty]