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Yamaha YTR-2330 or Jupiter JTR-601?


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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

berntd wrote:
Would a Jupiter JTR606MR with monel valves and rose brass be more expensive than a
606L?


Back when they were new they certainly were. The rose brass warms the tone, but you have to be careful about the monel - not a good track record there. Still, if the valves are good, the 606MR or 606MRL are fantastic.
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berntd
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is great info.

So someone is trying to sell me a 606M. He says it has Monel valves and it was new in 2008.
What exactly should I look out for regarding the valves when I see it?

Someone mentioned dark spots but don't all Monel valves go dark after some time?

Regards
Bernt
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

berntd wrote:
That is great info.

So someone is trying to sell me a 606M. He says it has Monel valves and it was new in 2008.
What exactly should I look out for regarding the valves when I see it?

Someone mentioned dark spots but don't all Monel valves go dark after some time?

Regards
Bernt


Monel is not as bright as nickel, but the porosity problem appears as darker stains, usually large blotches, on the grey tone of the piston. What is happening is that very small voids, air pockets, that formed when the monel was first cooling are exposed by the milling of the piston to its final size creating zones of tiny pockets in the surface. These act like a file and fill with small amounts of brass scavenged from the casing walls. Once those spots become more of a brass surface than a monel one, the brass oxidizing in that wet acidic environment develops a tendency to stick - dirty brass to dirty brass.

These stains are fairly visible if you look close. The color of a monel piston is relatively uniform, making these spots stand out.
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2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1927 Conn 22B NYS
1957 Holton Model 27 Stratodyne
1986 Yamaha YEP-621 (first in US)
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson British Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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berntd
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am just about to go buy this one.
A Jupiter 606M

But what do you think about the valves?

Owner claims they are pristine and work perfectly.
It is a far way to get there so better check here first...

Link to pic:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~berntd@bigblue.net.au/public/trumpet%20valves.jpg

Regards
Bernt
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think I would call those "pristine". There is a fair amount of dried oil and debris on the surface - looks like it wasn't cleaned all that often given that this is only an 11 year old horn.

The lighting, one side only view, and the surface accumulation all make it hard for me to say. I don't see an obvious problem, but I certainly can't say there isn't one from that photo.
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2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1927 Conn 22B NYS
1957 Holton Model 27 Stratodyne
1986 Yamaha YEP-621 (first in US)
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson British Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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berntd
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for looking

I can't get him to take more photos as he is getting annoyed by all my questions.

Would you pass on it for ~AU$200? ~US$140?
Are the spots I need to look pout for darker than the one seen in the right most valve?


I cannot find ANY examples of this type of problem and not even any reference to Jupiter valve problem for comparing on auntie google.

Regards
Bernt
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

berntd wrote:
Would a Jupiter JTR606MR with monel valves and rose brass be more expensive than a
606L?


It would not be surprising if it were. In the used market though they will be reasonably close.
_________________
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1927 Conn 22B NYS
1957 Holton Model 27 Stratodyne
1986 Yamaha YEP-621 (first in US)
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson British Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

berntd wrote:
Thanks so much for looking

I can't get him to take more photos as he is getting annoyed by all my questions.
Would you pass on it for ~AU$200? ~US$140?
Are the spots I need to look pout for darker than the one seen in the right most valve?
I cannot find ANY examples of this type of problem and not even any reference to Jupiter valve problem for comparing on auntie google.
Regards
Bernt


I would probably consider it, but I have a number of resources you likely don't. I have contacted Jupiter for replacement pistons before - but fitting them requires certain skills. And I would not as a gift.

Given the lack of cleaning and the abundance of similar horns, in your place I would probably pass. Any time a seller provides less than clear pictures, is reluctant to take more, and the one shows other than the seller's description of "pristine", I expect that there will be some issues.

Since this is intended as a gift, I suggest looking for a better example. They are out there.
_________________
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1927 Conn 22B NYS
1957 Holton Model 27 Stratodyne
1986 Yamaha YEP-621 (first in US)
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson British Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:47 pm    Post subject: not pristine valves Reply with quote

Those valves are not pristine. The trumpet hasn't been taken care of properly. I would look somewhere else for a trumpet.
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berntd
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you again!

I took your kind advice into consideration and came to a final decision not to buy that one.

I still have 2 weeks to find something and if all else fails, I could still buy a new one.

Regards
Bernt
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: Demo horns Reply with quote

Does your local music store have any demo horns for sale? Cheaper than new trumpets, but still in good shape.

If you can afford to buy a new trumpet, buy it.
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Denis Wick 2 W trumpet mp
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