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Bach Vindabona



 
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BBTP
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject: Bach Vindabona Reply with quote

Does anyone have any experiences with the Bach 180 MLV? Is it a good all-around horn? I have been offered one to purchase and wondering if to take the opportunity. How does it compare to the traditional bach 180 72*/43 Setup? I would be using it for lead commercial playing and occasional brass quintet, small chamber ensemble playing... Thank you!
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MLV is one of my favourite Bach horns... but everyone's different.

Honestly, you just have to try it and see how you like it - if you like it instantly, it's usually worth working with and if you don't like it instantly, it's not worth buying it (it's either a bad one or you just plain don't like that model.
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amzi
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've owned mine since the summer of 1969 and have never regretted buying it. I've used it for everything from big band to chamber music and it's never let me down. I have found that it loves virtually any mouthpiece I put in it. I typically play a Schilke 13A4a, a Curry 5TF, or Bach 1X, but I have used others and everything seems to work. Mine is also one of (if not) the most in tune horns I have ever played. It replaced my Olds Recording as my primary horn when I went to college and I never regretted it.

So, try it, you may like it.
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Gregory Gilmore
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:31 pm    Post subject: Bach Vindabona... Reply with quote

Bernie Glow played a Vindabona...
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: Bach Vindabona Reply with quote

BBTP wrote:
Does anyone have any experiences with the Bach 180 MLV? Is it a good all-around horn? I have been offered one to purchase and wondering if to take the opportunity. How does it compare to the traditional bach 180 72*/43 Setup? I would be using it for lead commercial playing and occasional brass quintet, small chamber ensemble playing... Thank you!


I have a 180MLV72G/25. It is quite a bit different from the 72 lightweight. Both bell and body are a heavier stock (.025 thickness vs .020 bell on .023 body with the LT180s) so the response is not as light as an LT180 series horn, and the gold brass darkens things a bit further. I have the stock 25 leadpipe, which creates a bit more perceived resistance than a 43, and again, I am told - not so sure on this one, darkens the tone. I think the tuning slide bore difference is almost transparent - all of the other factors are much more significant than the actual tapered crook (if it is significant at all).
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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: Bach Vindabona Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
I have a 180MLV72G/25
I have one as well, and much prefer it's dark sound versus other Bach models.
It is heavy indeed (almost a pound more than my lightest Benge) and doesn't
really suit commercial gigs- I prefer Calicchio and Benge.
However, it's perfect for church or brass quintet work, YMMV.
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dcjway
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Vindabona from 1971 it has a 72 bell and a 43 leadpipe and has 1st and 3rd valve triggers. I use a Bach 5C mouthpiece and love the warm sound I get from the horn. I've never had a problem blending with a section of Bach 37's, and is a great jazz horn. From what I understand Wynton Marsalis played one before he went with Monette.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You always have the option of adding a standard tuning slide rather than the multii-bore slide it comes with.

Always had a soft spot for the Bach Vindabona and the Olds Recording trumpets.
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, the Vindabona is available with one of two bells, the 72 and the 65, which was nicknamed the Vindabona bell. I had a Vindabona with a 65 gold brass bell. It was quite free blowing for a ML and was the darkest in sound of any horn I have ever played. I have heard that the Vindabona with the 65 bell was Vincent Bach's attempt to create a horn that would blend with rotary trumpets. I would definitely play one before buying. Edward Haug, former second trumpet with the San Francisco Symphony played a Vindabona with a 65 gold brass bell.
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rockford
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adagiotrumpet wrote:
Actually, the Vindabona is available with one of two bells, the 72 and the 65, which was nicknamed the Vindabona bell. I had a Vindabona with a 65 gold brass bell. It was quite free blowing for a ML and was the darkest in sound of any horn I have ever played. I have heard that the Vindabona with the 65 bell was Vincent Bach's attempt to create a horn that would blend with rotary trumpets. I would definitely play one before buying. Edward Haug, former second trumpet with the San Francisco Symphony played a Vindabona with a 65 gold brass bell.

Bach built a few rotary trumpets, but there wasn’t much of a market for them so he started using the rotary tonal concept on a piston instrument. The 65 was the original bell on the Bb Vindobona’s and was later replaced by the 72.
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Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach Bb, C and D trumpets and cornets. Bach Artisan C, Bach C cornet, Schilke G, Yamaha Eb and piccolo A/Bb, flugelhorn, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190
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trumpet56
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockford wrote:
adagiotrumpet wrote:
Actually, the Vindabona is available with one of two bells, the 72 and the 65, which was nicknamed the Vindabona bell. I had a Vindabona with a 65 gold brass bell. It was quite free blowing for a ML and was the darkest in sound of any horn I have ever played. I have heard that the Vindabona with the 65 bell was Vincent Bach's attempt to create a horn that would blend with rotary trumpets. I would definitely play one before buying. Edward Haug, former second trumpet with the San Francisco Symphony played a Vindabona with a 65 gold brass bell.

Bach built a few rotary trumpets, but there wasn’t much of a market for them so he started using the rotary tonal concept on a piston instrument. The 65 was the original bell on the Bb Vindobona’s and was later replaced by the 72.


Why did the 65 bell fall out of favor?
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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet56 wrote:
Why did the 65 bell fall out of favor?
IMO, not many trumpet players desired (nor could sustain?) such a 'Teutonic' sound.
I tried only one and it was definitely flugelhorn-like, and took quite a bit of air to respond.
The 72 bell is more versatile, and a much more efficient blow...
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rockford
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet56 wrote:
rockford wrote:
adagiotrumpet wrote:
Actually, the Vindabona is available with one of two bells, the 72 and the 65, which was nicknamed the Vindabona bell. I had a Vindabona with a 65 gold brass bell. It was quite free blowing for a ML and was the darkest in sound of any horn I have ever played. I have heard that the Vindabona with the 65 bell was Vincent Bach's attempt to create a horn that would blend with rotary trumpets. I would definitely play one before buying. Edward Haug, former second trumpet with the San Francisco Symphony played a Vindabona with a 65 gold brass bell.

Bach built a few rotary trumpets, but there wasn’t much of a market for them so he started using the rotary tonal concept on a piston instrument. The 65 was the original bell on the Bb Vindobona’s and was later replaced by the 72.


Why did the 65 bell fall out of favor?
Bach started off using the 65 bell on all the Bb Vindobonas, then totally dropped the 65 when he switched to the 72. I can only infer that he simply liked the 72 better for that purpose. Selmer resurrected the 65 as an option after they moved to Elkhart.
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Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach Bb, C and D trumpets and cornets. Bach Artisan C, Bach C cornet, Schilke G, Yamaha Eb and piccolo A/Bb, flugelhorn, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190
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trumpet56
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockford wrote:
trumpet56 wrote:
rockford wrote:
adagiotrumpet wrote:
Actually, the Vindabona is available with one of two bells, the 72 and the 65, which was nicknamed the Vindabona bell. I had a Vindabona with a 65 gold brass bell. It was quite free blowing for a ML and was the darkest in sound of any horn I have ever played. I have heard that the Vindabona with the 65 bell was Vincent Bach's attempt to create a horn that would blend with rotary trumpets. I would definitely play one before buying. Edward Haug, former second trumpet with the San Francisco Symphony played a Vindabona with a 65 gold brass bell.

Bach built a few rotary trumpets, but there wasn’t much of a market for them so he started using the rotary tonal concept on a piston instrument. The 65 was the original bell on the Bb Vindobona’s and was later replaced by the 72.


Why did the 65 bell fall out of favor?
Bach started off using the 65
bell on all the Bb Vindobonas, then totally dropped the 65 when he switched to the 72. I can only infer that he simply liked the 72 better for that purpose. Selmer resurrected the 65 as an option after they moved to Elkhart.


How do the sounds of the 65 and 72 bells compare? Is the 65 darker?
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rockford
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet56 wrote:
rockford wrote:
trumpet56 wrote:
rockford wrote:
adagiotrumpet wrote:
Actually, the Vindabona is available with one of two bells, the 72 and the 65, which was nicknamed the Vindabona bell. I had a Vindabona with a 65 gold brass bell. It was quite free blowing for a ML and was the darkest in sound of any horn I have ever played. I have heard that the Vindabona with the 65 bell was Vincent Bach's attempt to create a horn that would blend with rotary trumpets. I would definitely play one before buying. Edward Haug, former second trumpet with the San Francisco Symphony played a Vindabona with a 65 gold brass bell.

Bach built a few rotary trumpets, but there wasn’t much of a market for them so he started using the rotary tonal concept on a piston instrument. The 65 was the original bell on the Bb Vindobona’s and was later replaced by the 72.


Why did the 65 bell fall out of favor?
Bach started off using the 65
bell on all the Bb Vindobonas, then totally dropped the 65 when he switched to the 72. I can only infer that he simply liked the 72 better for that purpose. Selmer resurrected the 65 as an option after they moved to Elkhart.


How do the sounds of the 65 and 72 bells compare? Is the 65 darker?
It’s subjective . The only thing we know about Vincent Bach’s opinion is that he completely dropped the 65 and replaced it with the 72. One exception was a custom instrument with a 65 gold brass lightweight made very late in the game. Just before the move to Mt. Vernon.
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Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach Bb, C and D trumpets and cornets. Bach Artisan C, Bach C cornet, Schilke G, Yamaha Eb and piccolo A/Bb, flugelhorn, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190
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chapahi
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What would a Vindabona with a 37 bell or 43 bell sound like? Anyone tried that?
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rockford
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chapahi wrote:
What would a Vindabona with a 37 bell or 43 bell sound like? Anyone tried that?
Without the larger bell you no longer have a Vindobona. If you custom order a Bach ML 37 or 43 with the telescoping 440-448-453 tuning slide you would have a very resistant instrument that doesn’t project as well as with the standard .459 tuning slide. I tried a M tuning slide on my very lively and projecting ML 37 and liked the extra resistance but ultimately was not satisfied with the corresponding loss of projection.
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Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach Bb, C and D trumpets and cornets. Bach Artisan C, Bach C cornet, Schilke G, Yamaha Eb and piccolo A/Bb, flugelhorn, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Vindabona with a 43L bell.
It did have a touch more resistance, but it had a very nice sound. Brighter perhaps, but I never got "the hand" from any conductor nor was I told it was too brilliant.
I had Charlie Melk put a Mt. Vernon receiver on it and it played even better.
But it really wasn't a true Vindabona.
R. Tomasek
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