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improver
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Joined: 14 Mar 2004
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 Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:25 am Post subject: Can a dent in leadpipe affect blow? |
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| Can a dent in the leadpipe affect horn much? How do you get it out? |
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Pete
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Location: Western Massachusetts
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Improver,
It depends on how big the dent is. My opinion is that any dent in the leadpipe will affect the horn somewhat. Brass techs have the proper tools to get it out.
Pete |
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scottfsmith
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Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Look through a leadpipe after playing for awhile, you will see water beads on the inside of the pipe. If those water beads are bigger than the dent then you are not likely to notice any difference with one dent - it is like having 101 water beads instead of 100. If it is a big dent it could matter. Also if the pipe got bent it could change the stress points in the horn which will change the blow.
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Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
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Joshua Sewell
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Joined: 28 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Still sounds like a trumpet. I always play test the horns before and after I repaired them. Depending on where the dent is, should be an easy and quick repair.
Best wishes,
Joshua |
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Brad361
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Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Joshua Sewell wrote: | Still sounds like a trumpet. I always play test the horns before and after I repaired them. Depending on where the dent is, should be an easy and quick repair.
Best wishes,
Joshua |
It might still sound like a trumpet, but it’s my understanding that pretty much any dent anywhere in a trumpet might affect something. I’m sure pushing a dent ball through a leadpipe basically removes the dent, I’m not sure if doing that necessarily completely reverses any problem. Can you get that leadpipe PERFECTLY back to original?
There are some well established techs here, hopefully some of them might weigh in on this.
Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
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alanjhood
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| YES! |
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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
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Location: Idyllwild, CA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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+1
Just a quick word and observation: the closer to your face, the more it matters.
Mouthpieces start the transformation from a rude noise into music. If you have a mouthpiece whose rim is uncomfortable for you or incompatible with your physical approach, you're not going to get around the horn well, and you'll likely neither enjoy your performance nor sound. If the cup is too big or too small for your approach and musical application, that's also an issue. If the throat and backbore don't jive, all that stuff up front will get skewed right as the amplified buzz is sent into the horn. If you have gap issues, sound and playing characteristics will suffer.
So, next stop - Leadpipe! As mentioned above, if there are stress issues from the damage, or disturbances to the air column, this will impact all sorts of things in the performance of the horn. After this, tuning slide, valve alignment, slide alignment, and, finally bell --- the closer to your face, the more it matters!
Happy practicing,
-DB
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Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
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OldSchoolEuph
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:32 am Post subject: |
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+2
And you need a skilled tech who has a light touch and considerable experience to minimize the deformation of the surrounding area during removal as very slight variances in geometry have significant effects on the feel and the intonation profile of a horn.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
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James Becker
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Joshua Sewell wrote: | Still sounds like a trumpet. I always play test the horns before and after I repaired them. Depending on where the dent is, should be an easy and quick repair.
Best wishes,
Joshua |
Even with 40+ years experience, removing dents from lead pipes are among the most challenging. In order to effectively remove dents from a trumpet lead pipe oftentimes requires removal of the damaged pipe and remounting after dent work. Factoring disassembly is rarely “cheap or easy”. Then depending on wall thickness and type of alloy makes 100% restoration nearly impossible.
My two cents.
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Brad361
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| OldSchoolEuph wrote: |
+2
And you need a skilled tech who has a light touch and considerable experience to minimize the deformation of the surrounding area during removal as very slight variances in geometry have significant effects on the feel and the intonation profile of a horn. |
That’s what I thought as well, it’s not just a matter of shoving a dent ball through the leadpipe.
Brad
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Davewagner
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Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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I believe a dent in the leadpipe would affect sound but not too much. If the dent is closer to the mouthpiece shank, then it might affect the way the mouthpiece enters the horn and may cause more resistance while playing.
You can definitely get it fixed at a local brass repair shop!
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Brad361
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Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Davewagner wrote: | I believe a dent in the leadpipe would affect sound but not too much. If the dent is closer to the mouthpiece shank, then it might affect the way the mouthpiece enters the horn and may cause more resistance while playing.
You can definitely get it fixed at a local brass repair shop! |
Ok......so what is “not too much”? I’m wondering what you are basing your opinion on?
Personally, I put a lot of trust in the opinions of guys like Jim Becker (above). And if the dent was in the mouthpiece receiver, not just the leadpipe, it would probably have to be a major dent to affect the mouthpiece gap.
Sure, any local brass repair shop can probably remove the worst of a leadpipe dent, but I would send my horn to someone like Jim, Doctor Valve, etc. I think there’s more involved than just making it appear mostly fixed. Not to disparage local instrument repair techs, but there are reasons why the well respected guys are...what’s the phrase.... well respected.😉
Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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