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Yamaha or Tarnishield for polishing my horn?


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Akis94
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your fast answers ☺
I will buy and try the Tarnishield !!!
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is very interesting that after all the years that people have been polishing silver objects, and silver trumpets in particular, that we don’t have definitive information on the best way to maintain the silver plating.

For instance some of the sites that recommend windex also warn only to use the vinegar version, not the ammonia version.

I think part of the issue is that in many cases the damage to the plating is very small and one won’t notice until years of polishing.

Tarnishield seems to be one polish that is commonly recommended by manufacturers and repair shops so perhaps that is the definitive answer.
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Akis94
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again
Last question.. !!!
..and a little stupid

Is it the white bottle?
https://www.google.gr/search?q=3m+tarnish+shield&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjikqWi-J_fAhXHhqYKHb29DoAQ_AUoAXoECAwQAQ&biw=360&bih=492&dpr=3#imgrc=7vWMEJF619AlTM:

Or the black?[/img]
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only seen black bottles. But I haven't bought any recently. (The stuff lasts a long time, especially if you cut it with water.)

I guess you could contact 3M and ask if the white bottle is the same stuff, just in different packaging.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was looking I noticed that there were multiple concentrations of the tarnishield product. I thought about asking which specific type people use but after contacting one of the top repair shops and having them tell me they no longer sell tarnishield I just bought hagerties.
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can use either product as long as the trumpet bell and tubing are (on a rare occasion) completely made of sterling silver. Even then, likely pistons will be silver-plated brass.

With silver-plated brass, use the hot water + baking soda + aluminum foil treatment.
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cbtj51
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been using TarniShield on all of my horns for decades. I use it about once a year. I have used it on my 1971 Benge that I bought as a new horn ever since I can remember and the original silver plate is still 100%. This is a very high mileage horn!

I acquired a flugelhorn that had been in storage for many years a little more than a year ago. It was in a pretty serious state of tarnish (almost black inside the bell) and have applied Tarnishield just once so far. Still looks great!

Great product!!!

Mike
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'76 & '98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorns
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BraeGrimes
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good suggestions here. As some have said, a lot of the polishes here will take some silver with it. Personally, I've found Goddard's polish (diluted with a bit of water on the sponge) to be very light, but keeps a good shine. Goddard's also make a product called silver dip which is excellent for smaller parts, but be sure to rinse it off thoroughly afterward (it is an acid). You'd need a big resealable vessel and a lot of silver dip to do a full horn, but you can use it over an over again for a long time.
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shofarguy wrote:

Here's how the product works in real life:

Dilute thick toothpaste-like polish 1/1 with water; paint on surface with soft brush (I use a rouge brush) and let dry completely; Use a clean soft cloth (diaper, micro fibre) to buff off dry residue. That's it! No scrubbing no over buffing. Just wipe off the white powder. Then, feel the slippery layer left behind to protect the finish.


I just did this precisely as described and it worked amazingly well.

WAY easier than my old method.

Cheers.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use a polish that is designed for 'silver plated' items. Not polish for solid sterling silver.

Jay
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
Use a polish that is designed for 'silver plated' items. Not polish for solid sterling silver.

Jay

I am not disagreeing or arguing, but why? What is different?
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
...
I am not disagreeing or arguing, but why? What is different?

--------------
Items marked as 'Sterling', 'Sterling Silver', or stamped 925 (or 900 'coin silver') are solid 'silver containing metal' that contains the same amount of silver all the way thru. So the polishing compound for them can be more aggressive to remove scratches, etc.

On silver PLATED items a thin layer of silver is bonded on top of a base metal (e.g. brass) and the silver layer could be 'polished away' to reveal the underlying metal. When polishing silver plate, I recommend only removing the tarnish color, and NOT trying to 'buff out' scratches.

Polishes for silver PLATE, are usually a very fine abrasive along with a chemical to just remove the tarnish from the silver without removing too much of the silver itself.

Polishes for sterling (such as some knives and forks) can be more coarse to remove scratches, and to restore a 'mirror finish'.

Perhaps one of the experienced 'working pros' can give their views.

Jay
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King Super 20 (S2 1048, HN White)
Bach 7
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
...
I am not disagreeing or arguing, but why? What is different?

--------------
Items marked as 'Sterling', 'Sterling Silver', or stamped 925 (or 900 'coin silver') are solid 'silver containing metal' that contains the same amount of silver all the way thru. So the polishing compound for them can be more aggressive to remove scratches, etc.

On silver PLATED items a thin layer of silver is bonded on top of a base metal (e.g. brass) and the silver layer could be 'polished away' to reveal the underlying metal. When polishing silver plate, I recommend only removing the tarnish color, and NOT trying to 'buff out' scratches.

Polishes for silver PLATE, are usually a very fine abrasive along with a chemical to just remove the tarnish from the silver without removing too much of the silver itself.

Polishes for sterling (such as some knives and forks) can be more coarse to remove scratches, and to restore a 'mirror finish'.

Perhaps one of the experienced 'working pros' can give their views.

Jay

Makes sense. I wasn’t thinking of abrasive cleaners as I have always avoided using them on my instruments.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:

Makes sense. I wasn’t thinking of abrasive cleaners as I have always avoided using them on my instruments.

----
Pretty much anything that is described as a 'polish' will contain some type of abrasive.
E.g. the difference between a car 'wax' and a 'polish'.

Jay
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King Super 20 (S2 1048, HN White)
Bach 7
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:

Makes sense. I wasn’t thinking of abrasive cleaners as I have always avoided using them on my instruments.

----
Pretty much anything that is described as a 'polish' will contain some type of abrasive.
E.g. the difference between a car 'wax' and a 'polish'.

Jay

Agreed. Over time my routine has involved putting the cleaner, originally using Twinkle, then Haggerty’s and now Tarni-Shield, on the horn, without scrubbing or rubbing. Then, after the cleaner has dried, rinsing it off.

So with my routine there is very little rubbing or polishing.

From Herman Silver
“Least abrasive polishes that deposit tarnish protection...

• Blitz Silver Shine Polish – best in class (rinse and dry or let dry and buff, brightens & protects)
• 3M Tarni-Shield Silver Polish (rinse and dry, brightens & protects)
• Twinkle Silver Polish (rinse and dry, brightens & protects)”
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MiddleStaff
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:54 pm    Post subject: Something different Reply with quote

I use a paint sealant that I use on my cars for my silver trumpet and flugelhorn (and mouthpieces). It's called Klasse All-in-one. It's non-abrasive, removes the black oxidation, and protects them for what seems years. I use a microfiber cloth (Costco ones) to apply it.

One tip- don't use it where your lips contact your mouthpiece. The reason is, it makes things very slippery. Oh and hold onto your horn because it'll be slippery after this too. Good luck.[/img]
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nonchalant
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do people use to make your slides look new again? Do so e just use their silver polish or go for brasso?
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chrisf3000
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For slides, I use a Blitz "Slide and Valve Care" cloth. That thing gets slides looking like new![/quote]
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JoeLoeffler
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please just leave your slides alone. They work best with the matte finish that they came out of the factory with. Shiny slide surfaces do not hold lubricants well and can cause the action to seem catchy (even if they are aligned well). Clean your horn regularly and keep fresh grease on your slides (reapply regularly) and they will "look pretty good" for a long time. When things dry out and get crusty, that is when discoloration happens. The lubrication keeps oxidation at bay and the grease film keeps crud from sticking to the surfaces.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoeLoeffler wrote:
Please just leave your slides alone. They work best with the matte finish that they came out of the factory with. Shiny slide surfaces do not hold lubricants well and can cause the action to seem catchy (even if they are aligned well). Clean your horn regularly and keep fresh grease on your slides (reapply regularly) and they will "look pretty good" for a long time. When things dry out and get crusty, that is when discoloration happens. The lubrication keeps oxidation at bay and the grease film keeps crud from sticking to the surfaces.

I am not sure if your usage of shiny and matte align with mine. I remember my slides being shiny from the factory, not matte. Those new horns were Bach, Yamaha and Kanstul.

IMHO, shiny does not necessarily equate to smooth.

Using your terms, how do you recommend removing the discoloration/oxidation and returning to the matte finish?
(Not trying to start a fight, I am just curious)
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