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baboo Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Mar 2010 Posts: 164
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:53 am Post subject: Parduba mouthpiece for daily playing? |
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Hi everyone!
I have a Parduba double cup number 5 mouthpiece that I really enjoy playing. I get a good sound and endurance on it and it plays easy.
The one I use for most practice is a Bach 5C.
I'm wondering if the Parduba is a good enough moutpiece for developing chops and daily playing. Is it considered a shallow piece?? I don't want it as a "cheater" mouthpiece or anything, mostly I just like the sound more than the Bach (which is a little too dark and orchestral). Thoughts? |
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Mike Sailors Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 1838 Location: Austin/New York City
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:12 am Post subject: |
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They were good enough for Harry James.
There's no such thing as a cheater mouthpiece. Anyone using that term should be ignored. _________________ www.mikesailors.com |
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ljazztrm Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:09 am Post subject: |
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A lot of the newer Pardubas seem to have rims that are way too sharp for me. I have an old parduba 3 mouthpiece that I like. Jim New makes a great repro and the rim isn't so sharp.
Ironically the mouthpieces that are usually referred to as 'cheaters' are one that take the most efficiency and correct embouchure development to sound good on and play well. They don't allow much room for error like a piece with a lot of cup volume and a sharp bite on the rim might.
I believe the term 'cheater' developed because if you are playing incorrrectly/inefficiently a shallow mouthpiece with a more cushion style rim CAN let you get out a few higher notes with some excessive pressure or embochure manipulation. But not really high notes by today's standards. Also you will probably be getting a shrill, thin, nasal-y sound in the lower registers if playing on these pieces incorrectly and I think this is where the term 'cheater' comes from. Sacrificing the sound in the lower register to obtain a few relatively higher notes.
If any mouthpiece could be considered a 'cheater' I would say it would be one that is really big and deep - if you rely on that mouthpiece to get a good sound, instead of correct embouchure development!
A Parduba 5 I would consider to be a nice 'middle of the road' mouthpiece if the rim isn't too sharp. A little more orientated towards the commercial and solo trumpet arena. Fred Mills of the Canadian Brass was said to have used a Parduba pretty often.
Mouthpieces I would prefer over the Parduba 5:
Warburton 5ESV/H backbore.
If you could get really lucky - an old Bill Ratzenberger jet-tone 2C. The old jet-tones are still some of the best mouthpieces ever made IMO. Best. Lex _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Last edited by ljazztrm on Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ljazztrm Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:15 am Post subject: |
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P.S. - Although I did just say all that about 'cheater' mouthpieces, I just made some inquires about Mike Sailors and I heard he DOES play a cheater mouthpiece! No one will hire him because he cheats when he plays.
Quote: | There's no such thing as a cheater mouthpiece. Anyone using that term should be ignored. |
See, he can't even reply to my comment now!
Chaaaaa!! M.C. 2 U M.S. _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
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Mike Sailors Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 1838 Location: Austin/New York City
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:05 am Post subject: |
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There's some truth there! _________________ www.mikesailors.com |
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derekthor Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2012 Posts: 480 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Parduba mouthpiece for daily playing? |
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baboo wrote: |
I have a Parduba double cup number 5 mouthpiece that I really enjoy playing. I get a good sound and endurance on it and it plays easy.
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I think you answered your own question. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Mike Sailors wrote: | .....
There's no such thing as a cheater mouthpiece. Anyone using that term should be ignored. |
THIS.
Hey, if there was a mpce that let me "cheat" by giving me abilities that I don't have, I would probably buy two.
That being said though, generally speaking I think developing students should stay with a "middle of the road" piece, as long as it's appropriate to the individual. "Lead", "commercial", etc. pieces are fine for a mature player in the right genres, maybe not so much for a student.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1954
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:55 pm Post subject: Pardubas |
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Harry James indeed sounded wonderful on his Parduba 5* and didn't seem to have any problems in the low register either. I must say that it works very well combined with the DB Kings that he played after the Selmer years (which were .468). I have a '65 vintage balanced King from him and one of his early Parduba pieces and the combination is lovely. Big sound, great rim feel and doesn't seem too shallow for what I usually play on (SV cup). For what it's worth speaking of "cheater" mouthpieces, when I was with Severinsen, two mouthpieces always went on the stand with him. One was his current 5C made by the maker at the time he was trying and the other was a "screamer" made by Bob Reeves which Doc kept on the stand and would switch to when some high stuff was coming up without anybody in the audience seeing the switch. Bob told me it was similar to a 5E and that was the only mouthpiece Doc never left home without.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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baboo Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Mar 2010 Posts: 164
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for all the replies, I really appreciate it!
I'm still pretty much a beginner/intermediate player so I don't want to rush into anything too fast. The Bach 5C is a very good mpc for chops and general development, I just feel I like the sound on the parduba better. I guess I'll stick with the parduba for a while and see how it works.
It still feels like a middle of the road mouthpiece on the chops, probably thanks to the double cup design. |
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trumpetplanet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Posts: 543 Location: Bristol, UK
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:13 am Post subject: |
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ljazztrm wrote: |
Ironically the mouthpieces that are usually referred to as 'cheaters' are one that take the most efficiency and correct embouchure development to sound good on and play well. |
That's the gold right there. Now shhhh it's a secret!
But maybe you should go tell the guy in the other thread who is looking for a radical new idea. _________________ UK-based professional trumpeter.
Proponent of the Superchops/TCE.
https://neotericbrass.com/
https://trumpetpla.net/
https://tonguecontrolled.info/ |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8964 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:37 am Post subject: |
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ljazztrm wrote: | A lot of the newer Pardubas seem to have rims that are way too sharp for me. I have an old parduba 3 mouthpiece that I like. Jim New makes a great repro and the rim isn't so sharp.
Ironically the mouthpieces that are usually referred to as 'cheaters' are one that take the most efficiency and correct embouchure development to sound good on and play well. They don't allow much room for error like a piece with a lot of cup volume and a sharp bite on the rim might.
I believe the term 'cheater' developed because if you are playing incorrrectly/inefficiently a shallow mouthpiece with a more cushion style rim CAN let you get out a few higher notes with some excessive pressure or embochure manipulation. But not really high notes by today's standards. Also you will probably be getting a shrill, thin, nasal-y sound in the lower registers if playing on these pieces incorrectly and I think this is where the term 'cheater' comes from. Sacrificing the sound in the lower register to obtain a few relatively higher notes.
If any mouthpiece could be considered a 'cheater' I would say it would be one that is really big and deep - if you rely on that mouthpiece to get a good sound, instead of correct embouchure development!
A Parduba 5 I would consider to be a nice 'middle of the road' mouthpiece if the rim isn't too sharp. A little more orientated towards the commercial and solo trumpet arena. Fred Mills of the Canadian Brass was said to have used a Parduba pretty often.
Mouthpieces I would prefer over the Parduba 5:
Warburton 5ESV/H backbore.
If you could get really lucky - an old Bill Ratzenberger jet-tone 2C. The old jet-tones are still some of the best mouthpieces ever made IMO. Best. Lex |
Well, back in day a number of players used "cheater" mouthpieces and sounded pretty darn good on them. I was hanging out with Ray Triscari in the 60s and his mouthpieces were very small. He gave me one and I tried to use it but it was so small, I couldn't even play it, and I was playing a Purviance 4*D4 at the time, which is hardly a large mouthpiece. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Are you playing a new Parduba or vintage? They've changed a lot over the years. The newer ones have more mass to them.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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GordonH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2893 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:31 am Post subject: |
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VetPsychWars wrote: | Are you playing a new Parduba or vintage? They've changed a lot over the years. The newer ones have more mass to them.
Tom |
And more rounded rims. The 5 in particular seems radically different. _________________ Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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deejaymushone Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2012 Posts: 113 Location: Flatbush
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Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: cheater mouthpieces |
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1st: R.I.P. Lex - what a kind, warm person, & a great player - his reply above is really on the $.
Ok - I’m really late to the party (!) - some of these replies above are 17 years old now lol ! But hey - these are timeless topics that players continue to be interested in & disagree about......
That being said - Lex is *really*speaking the truth above. For proof, just visit the abel.hive player/combination website........a majority of the players from the 1st 1/2 of the 20th century, ie: the golden age of the Bb trumpet, are using shallow mouthpiece, many with wide rims (by today’s standards). Players like Fats Navarro, Bunny Berrigan, Ray Anthony, Harry James, etc etc on and on all had HUGE fat, buttery sounds on what would now be considered to be very small mouthpieces. To say that all of these players are “cheating” is ridiculous (!). To say that every one of them is a “freak” defies logic & reason.
You can all see where this is going lol.........!
Respectfully,
Jeremy Mush1 _________________ 1924 Besson Rapuwano
1941 Martin HCI / 1949 Committee Deluxe
1947 Chicago Benge
Conn 1929 2B / 1924 22B / 1934 8B / 1956 10B / 1967 20A / 1958 38B / 1952 48B
1965 Olds Recording
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E |
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