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Systematic or Physical Approach and Combining Books



 
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Esrc
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject: Systematic or Physical Approach and Combining Books Reply with quote

Hi,
I've been looking at Claude Gordon's books recently and I think that they look great, really good for giving a structured session for someone like me who is great at over practicing. I've got 2 questions.

1) Should I start with the systematic or the physical approach. I've got about 2 years of proper practicing experience and about 3 before that. I normally have a pretty solid C sometimes an Eb but this only lasts for about 45 mins at band etc is that enough experience to start with SA?

2) I've also seen the other books daily routines and tongue level excercises I was wondering if these would be worth getting as well and if so how to work them into the routines

Thanks for your help,
Evan
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At your experience, you can probably skip physical approach.
Start with systematic and then look to get daily trumpet routines.

Of course if you're after CG material it's always a good idea to look for a CG teacher.
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Esrc
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks I'll get the systematic approach
Re a cg teacher I would really like to get one but I'm still at school and I really don't think I could stretch to the $100 I remember seeing it would cost once for one lesson
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contact Bruce Haag. He teaches online and he's very reasonable to work with.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be clear, you are talking about Eb above High C (above the staff), right?
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Esrc
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, 3 ledger lines Eb
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start from the middle of Physical Approach, spending 1 week on each routine. Then jump from there into Systematic approach Lesson 2, spending 2 weeks on each routine until you get to the end of the book.

That will take a couple of years. Then you can do Systematic Approach a second time, 1 week on each routine for year 3.

Have fun!
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gwood66
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would recommend the following books to start with:

Systematic Approach
Irons 27 Groups of Exercises
Clarke Technical Studies

The front matter to systematic approach lists other books but the three above will get you started. If you search the CG forum, John Mohan discusses how to perform the Part 1 and Part 2 exercises and systematic approach in general. He also has some older posts in the comeback forum where he describes his routine in detail. John also give lessons via skype.

Jeff Purtle has written an Apple iBook that discusses Claude Gordon and his principles. It is worth the money.

Good luck.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gwood66 wrote:
I would recommend the following books to start with:

Systematic Approach
Irons 27 Groups of Exercises
Clarke Technical Studies

The front matter to systematic approach lists other books but the three above will get you started. If you search the CG forum, John Mohan discusses how to perform the Part 1 and Part 2 exercises and systematic approach in general. He also has some older posts in the comeback forum where he describes his routine in detail. John also give lessons via skype.

Jeff Purtle has written an Apple iBook that discusses Claude Gordon and his principles. It is worth the money.

Good luck.


Plus One on all of the above!

Claude always said that Physical Approach was for beginners and also intermediate level players whose range hadn't reached High C yet. A player who can reach a High C should begin with Systematic Approach (SA).

As gwood66 pointed out, you'll find if you search a bit that I've written fairly in depth instructions on how to properly use Systematic Approach and the other books necessary for well-rounded development. The book progressives a bit too quickly for most players. If you are going to use it as written, you should stay on each Lesson for at least two weeks, especially as you get past the first 10 lesson or so (maybe three weeks per lesson starting around lesson ten). A better approach would be to study with me or someone else who studied long-term with Claude and that way you'll be a personalized daily routine that progresses similarly to the way Claude's routines for his students actually did after he had gained the many more years of experience as a teacher that he gain during the 35 years he taught after writing Systematic Approach.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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Esrc
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks all of you for your help

In terms of a teacher honestly I'd really like to get a trained CG one but I just don't have the cash at the moment as annoying as that is. I see a really good teacher (obviously not as good as a CG guy but I feel like I'm coming on well with him) who by luck teaches at my school so I can get help with the costs of them. I promise next time I have the money I'll come right here.

One more question and I'll leave you all alone, where would I put daily routines material in an SA lesson? First and if so how much of a rest would I leave before starting part 1? Last and if so would I still do the SA flexibilities/after how much of a rest?
Sorry if these are stupid questions but I'd rather risk looking silly and make sure I was doing it right than not.
Thanks for your help,
Evan
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solo soprano
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esrc wrote:
Ok thanks all of you for your help
One more question and I'll leave you all alone, where would I put daily routines material in an SA lesson? First and if so how much of a rest would I leave before starting part 1? Last and if so would I still do the SA flexibilities/after how much of a rest?
Sorry if these are stupid questions but I'd rather risk looking silly and make sure I was doing it right than not.
Thanks for your help,
Evan


You do not have to practice your routines in the order they are listed. Rather, you can rearrange them to fit your needs. For instance, if double tonguing is the weakest item in your playing, and you happen to have all the range you need, practice the double tonguing exercises first, and the upper register studies last.

As an example,

Claude Gordon / Systematic Approach
*if needed stay on each lesson for 2 weeks*

1. Play Part 1, then rest 15 minutes

2. Play Part II, and the Lip Relaxer, then rest one hour.

3. Play Part III, then rest 15 minutes.

4. Play Part IV, then rest one hour.

5. Play Part V, then rest 15 minutes.

6. Play Part VI, and you are finished.

If time does not allow you to practice in this manner, practice Parts I, II, and III one day, and Parts IV, V, and VI the next, and take two (four) weeks to complete each lesson.
While practicing a particular routine, rest as much as you play. Between routines, rest long enough for the muscles to rebuild themselves, and then some.
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Esrc
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks that's good to know [/u]
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a good video online that gives an example of the proper way a lesson is executed?
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EricV
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out Eric Bolvin's web site Bolvinmusic.com

Eric studied with Claude Gordon and has made videos demonstrating how to play Systematic approach parts 1 and 2. Well worth a look plus he has some great method/excercise books on his site as well.

Cheers

EricV
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EricV wrote:
Check out Eric Bolvin's web site Bolvinmusic.com

Eric studied with Claude Gordon and has made videos demonstrating how to play Systematic approach parts 1 and 2. Well worth a look plus he has some great method/excercise books on his site as well.

Cheers

EricV


Thank you!
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