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Scuba Steve
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Joined: 23 Aug 2019
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Location: Montgomery, Alabama
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 Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:04 pm Post subject: bach stradivarius 190s43 Prices Falling |
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I have been monitoring prices on these new 190s43's and I notice the prices on the brand new ones keep dropping, slowly, but steadily-nearly a grand in the last year. Are the Bach retailers having hard time moving these?
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J.D. Heckathorn
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Joined: 16 Aug 2018
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:11 am Post subject: Re: bach stradivarius 190s43 Prices Falling |
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| Scuba Steve wrote: | | I have been monitoring prices on these new 190s43's and I notice the prices on the brand new ones keep dropping, slowly, but steadily-nearly a grand in the last year. Are the Bach retailers having hard time moving these? |
While not the same horn, I began shopping earlier this year for a Bach Mariachi 43B and got a new old stock for an insane deal. We're talking more than half off retail. While I got the best deal I saw during that time, it seems they were on a downward trend across the board even new. It could be most buyers are going with the 190-37 and there is excess stock of 43s.
On another note ted Waggoner who has been instrumental in Bach's resurgence of quality in recent years has retired. Maybe the new management will be moving towards trimming fat in lines that are not making them the margins they need to stay profitable. I hope Bach stays in this state of innovation.
My $0.01 anyway
John |
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James Becker
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: |
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I think J.D. “hit the nail on the head” regarding surplus supply. Not that long ago Conn-Selmer was looking to move excess 180-37G models that were on the shelf. Reading the market demand and planning production runs is something the bean counters occasionally get wrong. This story reenforces the popularity of Bach model 37 Bb trumpets.
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James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
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Dayton
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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I never considered myself a fan of the 43 bell, but I tried a 19043 at ITG a few years ago and was really, really impressed with it. I subsequently purchased one, and went back-and-forth between that and a 19037 as my all-around horn.
There is wonderful core to the sound of the 19037 (and the 18037), that you don't quite get with the 19043. Instead, you get a slightly brighter, livelier sound with more ring to it. It is an easy sound to get used to. |
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chef8489
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
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Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Really wish they would do a lr190s72 or 190s72. I love the 72 bell and much prefer it over all the others I have played. |
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leahcim
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Joined: 14 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I play a Centennial 43 and I have to say it is the best Bach I have ever owned / played. Having owned several early Elkhart horns I have to say they really knocked it out of the park with the 190's. There is something special with the 43 bell with the 190 updates. For me it is a much better horn than the 37. |
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Scuba Steve
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Joined: 23 Aug 2019
Posts: 22
Location: Montgomery, Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It could be most buyers are going with the 190-37 and there is excess stock of 43s. |
I had suspected this was the case. I play a Bach LR18043 heavy bell which I have had since new. I love this horn. It was the best horn for my tastes I had ever played until I made the fatal mistake of playing the newer 190s43. In short, I will be buying one. I'm in no hurry, as My decades old '43 is in beautiful condition. I will try to wait until the price falls a little more. Hopefully I will buy just before the remaining stock is melted down to make beginner's saxophones.
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Scuba Steve
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Location: Montgomery, Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Really wish they would do a lr190s72 or 190s72. I love the 72 bell and much prefer it over all the others I have played. |
I must admit- I had not noticed that these were lacking in the new product line. It seems they would make at least a few to thrill those players in the 72 camp.
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chef8489
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
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Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Scuba Steve wrote: | | Quote: | | Really wish they would do a lr190s72 or 190s72. I love the 72 bell and much prefer it over all the others I have played. |
I must admit- I had not noticed that these were lacking in the new product line. It seems they would make at least a few to thrill those players in the 72 camp. |
You dont even have the option in the Build-a-bach tool to do a 190 and 72 bell. Maybe I can convince them to do one lol. |
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Scuba Steve
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Location: Montgomery, Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I play a Centennial 43 and I have to say it is the best Bach I have ever owned / played. |
Please don't take this the wrong way, but because you own a Centennial model, which I would love to have but my book keeper (AKA, the Mrs.) refuses to spend the money on, I do hate you so completely and from the very essence of my soul.
Aside from the engraving and the silver trim kit, is it any different than the regular 190s43? If you say "Yes, it's better", then my journey to the dark side will be complete.
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Scuba Steve
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Aside from the engraving and the silver trim kit, is it any different than the regular 190s43? |
I said SILVER trim kit. It should be GOLD trim kit. My mistake. Still loathe you so much.
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TrptSTP
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Joined: 25 Apr 2008
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Location: Toledo, OH
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Scuba Steve wrote: | | Quote: | | Really wish they would do a lr190s72 or 190s72. I love the 72 bell and much prefer it over all the others I have played. |
I must admit- I had not noticed that these were lacking in the new product line. It seems they would make at least a few to thrill those players in the 72 camp. |
Talking to a Bach rep at the OMEA convention last winter, they have no interest in adding the 190 features to the build-a-Bach. I was rather flippantly told that, "It wouldn't be a 190" if you just picked your desired components.
I specifically asked about them adding a 190s72. No, the answer is no. |
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rockford
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| TrptSTP wrote: | | Scuba Steve wrote: | | Quote: | | Really wish they would do a lr190s72 or 190s72. I love the 72 bell and much prefer it over all the others I have played. |
I must admit- I had not noticed that these were lacking in the new product line. It seems they would make at least a few to thrill those players in the 72 camp. |
Talking to a Bach rep at the OMEA convention last winter, they have no interest in adding the 190 features to the build-a-Bach. I was rather flippantly told that, "It wouldn't be a 190" if you just picked your desired components.
I specifically asked about them adding a 190s72. No, the answer is no. |
Bach does a lot of play testing before settling in on components that work well together for most people. 90% of the trumpets they sell are ML 37's. The other 10% is everything else. Bach does a pretty good job of catering to the 10% but they're still a large factory that has to look at the global picture of sales. This is a job for a custom builder. The 72 bell is great in some set ups but not so good in others. Anyway, the parts are available and there are many excellent custom shops that will do whatever you want with them. Experimenting can be a pretty expensive proposition. I'm inclined to trust Bach's opinion on what works and what doesn't.
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Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190. |
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J.D. Heckathorn
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:34 am Post subject: |
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I am surprised there was no "New York jazz" edition or something with the 190 body and 72* bell. This has always been a good combo bell/weight, but I think it could be because the 37/43 bells have been around much longer to have better specs and experience with when it comes to deciding "what is the most original blueprint for these flares?" Could be that there wasn't any reason to mess with the 72, which is just not as popular as the 43/37. I actually happen to love the 25 bell but I wouldn't expect to see a 190 version of it. The 43B bell on the Mariachi horn has a larger 5" 43 bell which I've found to possess some of that 72 girth in the sound when comparing it to my friends '78 72 bell.
Interesting thread! I wonder if there are any lurkers from Bach who can chime in. |
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J.D. Heckathorn
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:53 am Post subject: |
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I am surprised there was no "New York jazz" edition or something with the 190 body and 72* bell. This has always been a good combo bell/weight, but I think it could be because the 37/43 bells have been around much longer to have better specs and experience with when it comes to deciding "what is the most original blueprint for these flares?" Could be that there wasn't any reason to mess with the 72, which is just not as popular as the 43/37. I actually happen to love the 25 bell but I wouldn't expect to see a 190 version of it. The 43B bell on the Mariachi horn has a larger 5" 43 bell which I've found to possess some of that 72 girth in the sound when comparing it to my friends '78 72 bell.
Interesting thread! I wonder if there are any lurkers from Bach who can chime in. |
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Scuba Steve
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Joined: 23 Aug 2019
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Location: Montgomery, Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Interesting thread! I wonder if there are any lurkers from Bach who can chime in. |
Good question! Any takers?
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Scuba Steve
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Hey, leahcim. You know that whole thing about me hating you was meant in the most friendly , envious way possible, right?
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Denny Schreffler
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| rockford wrote: |
Bach does a lot of play testing before settling in on components that work well together for most people. |
I knew a guy ... strong player, weak musician.
About 25 years ago -- after poring over the playing characteristics of individual components in the Bach catalog -- he ordered a custom horn.
They factory actually checked back with him because his combination of components was not something that they would recommend.
He had them build it
The horn was a dog.
-Denny |
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Brassgurus
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: bach stradivarius 190s43 Prices Falling |
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| Scuba Steve wrote: | | I have been monitoring prices on these new 190s43's and I notice the prices on the brand new ones keep dropping, slowly, but steadily-nearly a grand in the last year. Are the Bach retailers having hard time moving these? |
Where have you been monitoring these prices? There has been no price drop from where I stand. They still cost exactly the same as I bought them when they first came out.
Eric |
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Scuba Steve
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Joined: 23 Aug 2019
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Location: Montgomery, Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Where have you been monitoring these prices? There has been no price drop from where I stand. They still cost exactly the same as I bought them when they first came out. Eric |
Ebay. When I first started looking, you didn't see many for under around $3300. One vendor currently has one brand new for $2499 by btmdollar. Quinn the Eskimo has an "Open Box" on which he lists the serial number. This horn has been offered from 2799.00 and as low as $2045. It appears to be brand new, but he says it was a Demo Horn that was never played. Check it out.
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