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Post Mt. Vernon Mouthpiece


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Scuba Steve
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:37 am    Post subject: Post Mt. Vernon Mouthpiece Reply with quote

I have seen a few post from people wanting to sell their "post Mt. Vernon" equipment, especially mouthpieces. I thought that everything Bach has produced since 1965 was "post Mt. Vernon." Am I missing something here?
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delano
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the price.
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plankowner110
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
Yes, the price.



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markp
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d be curious to know in what years the vertical fraction was stamped on the mouthpieces. Post?
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's just understanding how searches work...

Sellers knowing that there will be buyers searching for Mt Vernon stuff, and by putting "post Mt Vernon" the searches will show their items - early corp stuff might be a close second best for some buyers and if the price difference is enough they might just go for it.
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Scuba Steve
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you guys are saying it's all about a little snake oil along with some smoke and mirrors. I thought so. Thank you.
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nowave
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read it a different way... There’s a seller on eBay (frisco1227) that’s turned me on to pieces from the 1965-69 period. Maybe “early Elkhart” is a better term? In any event, he claims that pieces from this period use the same cutters and the slightly heavier blanks from the Mt Vernon era.

If you’re inclined to believe the Mt Vernon hype, it’s worth trying one of these at a much lower price. I had a 3C from this era and it was excellent. Of course at the end of the day, every single piece is an individual specimen, and there are gems and dogs from every period.
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do agree nowave, early Elkhart stuff plays great and I personally prefer it to current...
But the reason he's calling it post Mt Vernon will be because it gets more search hits.

The Mt Vernon 3C I had was noticeably different from the no dot corp 3C I had at the same time, same goes for the 1.5C pieces I had - in both cases I liked both (and chose to keep just the Corp's because the Vernon's were worth more to sell and harder to replace if I'd had to).
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Irving
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the corp no period mpcs have a 28 hole. Believe it or not.
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can testify to this Early Elkhart idea too. For years, I played a Bach 5C from the transition year, 1964-65. It is like a Mount Vernon and is closest to a current 1.5C. It played great but got a little banged up over the years. When I went to replace it, I wound up with a 1.5C. Have seriously thought of getting it replicated.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So - does that mean when Chet Baker played a Bach 5C, he was actually playing a 1.5C?
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bike&ed
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've gone back to a Mt Vernon 3C for most Bb and C work, it's really different from any early Elkhart or more modern 3C I've encountered (several dozen examples), and it works a little better overall (for me.)
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know there are tons of forums on this, but I'm always confused with which Bach 3C's are which when it comes to year groups, "and that special sauce".
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johntpt
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the link below for more specific info,

The Corp mouthpieces without a period after the Corp are considered to be some of the finest ever made by Bach and are highly sought after by some players.

JU

https://www.trumpetjunkie.com/datingbachmouthpieces.htm
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johntpt wrote:
Check the link below for more specific info,

The Corp mouthpieces without a period after the Corp are considered to be some of the finest ever made by Bach and are highly sought after by some players.

JU

https://www.trumpetjunkie.com/datingbachmouthpieces.htm


Thank you for this.
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Joshua712
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technically yeah any piece made after the move to Elkhart could accurately be called “Post Mt Vernon”, but generally speaking people tend to use it to refer to mouthpieces made from roughly 1965-1969 or thereabouts. People often refer to horns built then as “early Elkhart” but it’s sort of rare to see mouthpieces classified as such. Usually though, people identify the vintage of Bach mouthpieces by its stamping, ie “Corp”, “Corp.”, vertical fraction, diagonal fraction, etc
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a collector, I'm always looking for something cool, but could never find or figure out which one of these was worth the price.
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delano
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though I was a little bit cynical I have to admit that from my period that I collected 7C mouthpieces, I still own a 7C VINCENT BACH CORP" (no period) 1965-1969 for cornet that is by far my best 7C mouthpiece. I don't use that size anymore but it has always be the question for me why the Bach company simply did not copy that mp instead of producing the present-day 7C's with the very uncomfortable sharp rim.
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A.N.A.Mendez
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a friend/mentor who's been a repair tech and in the business since the 1940s, (he's 89) told me when they moved to Elkhart it was in the winter, there were union troubles. The big bosses told the crew to pack up the machinery, blanks, mandrels etc. for the move. After they left the disgruntled works threw everything in the snow and walked out.The bosses didn't find out till the following week, everything was rusted and ruined. That is why Mt. Vernon stuff is sought after, no way to replicate...
He swears this story is true.
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A.N.A.Mendez wrote:
I have a friend/mentor who's been a repair tech and in the business since the 1940s, (he's 89) told me when they moved to Elkhart it was in the winter, there were union troubles. The big bosses told the crew to pack up the machinery, blanks, mandrels etc. for the move. After they left the disgruntled works threw everything in the snow and walked out.The bosses didn't find out till the following week, everything was rusted and ruined. That is why Mt. Vernon stuff is sought after, no way to replicate...
He swears this story is true.


That's a cool story, and if true, tragic as well. Thank you for it.
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