How to sound good on flugelhorn

[Cameron.DeLucca]

I am the lead trumpet player for my high school jazz ensemble and I can pretty much do anything... except play the flugelhorn. I listen to guys like Arturo Sandoval just absolutely shred and I have no clue how to mimic it. For lead playing I could listen to Maynard Ferguson, Wayne Bergeron, Eric Miyashiro and more recently Louis Dowdeswell and pick up their mannerisms to attempt to replicate the same tonal quality in the upper register. With flugelhorn I just can’t seem to get it. I’m currently on the Bobby Shew Flugelhorn mp; my tone is airy and whenever I take the mouthpiece of my embouchure it just hurts. (I’ve never had this problem with my trumpet) I also do not nearly have the same range: high D seems to be the top out for me. I’ve tried putting more air through the horn and that has helped a little. Any and all suggestions would be great.

Thx

[Richard III]

Much less air. More focused embouchure. Also, some horns don't like the upper range. I play an Adams and it plays up there really, really easy with any of the Currys. My old Jupiter didn't go there anywhere as easy. The Shew mouthpiece made my horn sound like a trombone. I didn't like it and prefer the Curry line.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Turkle]

You really have to back off on your air.

Although this is a gross oversimplification, I always say that playing the trumpet is like blowing out a candle 3 feet away, while playing the flugelhorn is like warming your hands on a cold night. You need that soft, warm airstream and the flugel will respond wonderfully.

When I first started playing the flugelhorn many years ago I couldn't get a sound out of it because I kept overblowing and trying to "muscle" the horn around. Back off on your air, be gentle, and let the horn respond and you'll have an excellent time.

And it's worth it! Playing the flugelhorn is so fun! So don't get discouraged.

Cheers.
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Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.

[HERMOKIWI]

The most likely problem is that you're playing your flugelhorn the same way you're playing your trumpet. You're bearing down and taking the same physical approach you take to playing the trumpet lead book.

Trumpet players tend to think of flugelhorn as "a different version of trumpet" and, as a result, their approach to playing flugelhorn is essentially the same as their approach to playing trumpet.

In fact, flugelhorn is much different than trumpet. If you don't align yourself with those differences you end up fighting the horn.

The first rule of playing flugelhorn compared to playing trumpet is that you need to back off. Flugelhorn has a lot less resistance. You need to relax. Stop thinking about high notes and sound volume. Start thinking about purity of tone. Flugelhorn is not designed to produce high notes as easily as trumpet or play as loud as trumpet. Flugelhorn is designed to be more flexible than trumpet and produce the characteristic mellow flugelhorn sound.

When your embouchure hurts the first thing you examine is how much pressure you're playing with. Your description of your sound and the fact that your embouchure hurts strongly suggests that you're using much more pressure than you really need.

You're probably using more pressure than you use on trumpet. What you're trying to do (subconsciously) is increase resistance. You're trying to compensate for the lower resistance of flugelhorn by increasing mouthpiece pressure to increase resistance. That pressure is opening up your embouchure, which creates the airy sound.

Another possible issue with your embouchure hurting is the mouthpiece rim width and rim contour . I'm not familiar with the Bobby Shew flugelhorn mouthpiece. I suggest you compare its rim width and rim contour to your trumpet mouthpiece. If it's different (especially if it's narrower) this could be responsible for this problem in whole or in part. Personally, I use exactly the same cup diameter, rim width and rim contour on my flugelhorn piece as I do on my trumpet piece.

Relax as much as you can when playing flugelhorn. Don't try to muscle anything. Focus your embouchure without using excessive pressure. Don't overblow. Think SOUND.
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HERMOKIWI

[cheiden]

You're very likely fighting the instrument. I've found that there is a very particular adjustment required that involves playing what feels like lower in the slot.
Getting the sound in your head is also a really good idea. Instead of just listening to superhumans like Arturo try to add to some less extreme players like good ol' Chuck Mangione. I'm also a big fan of Art Farmer though his later stuff was not on flugel but Flumpet, it still helps wth the sound concept.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[theslawdawg]

[jazz_trpt]

There are very few applications in jazz band that should require anyone to be playing much above the staff on flugelhorn, so just worry about E on the bottom of the staff up to G above the staff and get that sounding good and comfortable.

Make sure the diameter of your mouthpiece is close or identical to your trumpet mouthpiece.

Force yourself to spend time practicing the flugel in addition to trumpet and do switch back and forth between the two when practicing.

Listen to a good sound model for the horn (several have been mentioned in this thread). I'd consider adding Bobby Shew to that list and there are a number of others. Let sound be your guide...and find a local pro you can listen to.

Good luck!
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Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!

[spitvalve]

Add Marvin Stamm to the list for beautiful flugel playing. Youtube has some nice videos. BTW an "airy" sound isn't necessarily bad on a flugel--if it's more of a "fluffy" sound. Great example of "fluffy" flugel playing is Guido Basso, particularly his work with Rob McConnell's Boss Brass.
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Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces

[blbaumgarn]

Cameron, there are some great hints and advice in this section. If I were you I would keep listening to great players and how they sound on the flugel, but when you play, try to develop your own embouchure, and sound, too. No matter what ya do you will sound the way you sound, and that is going to be fine, too. My first experiences on flugel were when I went to college and my teacher first ran a piccolo trumpet by me one day and just put out a piece with something sight read and said "play." When I was done he said, "good, now I know I am not going to have to tell you not to try to force too much air through the horn." He basically said the same thing one day when they had a couple flugelhorns in to try out. Less is just right. Find Ack Van Rooyen on youtube. His sound is like drawn butter on lobster. Wonderful and milky. Just enjoy listening to him. Tonight at work (I do overnights in a group home) I am watching the movie "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier Spy. The theme is a wonderful flugel solo that is repeated a few times in the movie. It is perhaps more edgy than some of the people you have mentioned but it is wonderful. Most of all find new people to inspire you and enjoy the experience. Brian
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"There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush

[Brad361]

[iiipopes]

All the above. When I got my Couesnon Flugel a few years ago, I had some of the same issues as the above posts. I contacted my friend who used to be a school band teacher specializing in beginning band and fitting instruments, and who is also a high brass player himself. He told me the same things as all the above: relax, focus slower, bigger air, be secure in the embouchure, let the instrument sing.
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King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet

[shofarguy]

Cameron,

How are things progressing? I stopped by your thread tonight after reading through it when you first posted. I didn't have time to formulate a reply back then. I've read all of the reply posts and there are some good things in them. I had a similar search as you when I started playing flugelhorn, so I'm going to briefly list a few things that really helped me.

1) Less air velocity is essential, but with the original mouthpiece I had, it always felt like I was holding my breath. It wasn't fun. Later, I tried a number of mouthpieces with much larger bore sizes. The typical starter flugelhorn mouthpiece bore is about #18. A typical trumpet mouthpiece is a #27 bore. The larger the number of the bore, the smaller it is. When I got to a bore of about #13, playing flugelhorn started to feel more natural. The larger bore helps slow the air velocity going into the horn and you can just let the air flow out of your lungs with natural buoyancy.

2) I use a breathing exercise that establishes proper use of the right muscles one should use for the most efficient use of energy. It also uses you body's natural elastic buoyancy and the lip position you already use to blow out birthday candles.

3) I played a game that goes like this: Using that candle-blowing lip position, start the flow of your air through the horn with only enough mouthpiece pressure to seal your air from leaking around the corners of your mouth. Slowly bring your lips together so that you can hear a buzz barely beginning. Continue to progressively develop that buzz into a resonant tone, then slowly open the space between the lips and try to let additional air into the tone until it fades smoothly back into just airflow.

Master this game and I think you'll have no more trouble with flugelhorn. In fact, it will probably transform your trumpet playing, too. Your tone will get crazy resonant and you won't have to work as hard as you're used to. You'll have more fun!
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Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[HERMOKIWI]

Bobby Shew is here today for his performance with the Nebraska Jazz Orchestra. I'm the season sponsor for the NJO and was at the rehearsal yesterday. Bobby is playing about half of his selections on flugelhorn.

The thing that stood out to me in watching/hearing him play is that he plays at a very moderate volume level. He's not muscling the horn at all, even in the high register. He gets a very even and exceptionally pure sound throughout his entire flugelhorn range.

I sponsored Bill Watrous on trombone many times and he was another player that played at a very moderate volume level, didn't muscle the horn even in the high register and got a very even and exceptionally pure sound.

Flugelhorn sounds best when you just try to flow through the horn at a moderate volume level. If you play aggressively you'll have difficulty producing a clear, even and pure flugelhorn sound.

I think Bobby is 78 years old. He definitely can still play. He sounded great. On trumpet he went all the way up to double D# on one chart and it didn't look like he was working very hard doing it. He has a very gentle demeanor and is a very intellectual player and teacher. He's very inspirational. We're all looking forward to his performance tonight.
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HERMOKIWI

[Sailbike1]

interesting read about the differences. thanks much. learn something new every day.

[Flip Oakes]

FYI, Arturo plays #1 Flip Oakes Extreme Flugelhorn Mpc.
I also offer a 'Standard' 1" deep #13 bore flugelhorn mpc. as well...

https://flipoakes.com/accessories/mouthpieces/
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Flip Oakes “Wild Thing Trumpets”
2559 Mottino Dr.
Oceanside, Ca. 92056-3421
760-643-1501


Delivering the distinctive Wild Thing Sound since 1994