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Tongue Level Exercises



 
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BBB1976
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Joined: 30 May 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:09 am    Post subject: Tongue Level Exercises Reply with quote

Hi Folks
I was round a friends house the other day, who plays here in one of London's West End shows, and we were playing duets. One of the books he had was Tongue Level Exercises by Claude Gordon. Now, I personally have not studied the CG approach much, but have to say this is a very good book. Having played through a bit of it, it reminded me of those wonderful interval exercises in the Arban, Which I like! Indeed, the air and the tongue is so important in trumpet playing! Personally, I approach things with the air, as I kind of do the tongue thing naturally but am aware of it, if you know what I mean......Yes great flexibility book! Any thoughts on this book?? I might order it.

Best.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it's a great book. And so are Daily Trumpet Routines and Thirty Velocity Studies! Systematic Approach and to some extent, Brass Playing Is No Harder Than Deep Breathing get discussed a lot around here, but I think all Claude's books are, if not mandatory, certainly close to it for total brass playing development.

The first exercise in Tongue Level Exercises is the basic exercise to develop K-Tongue Modified (Dorsal) tonguing, and the instructions for how to do that are on page 2 in the book (and on several other pages in various languages as well). Then as you noted, the rest of the book is comprised of excellent Flexibility Exercises (aka Tongue Level Exercises).

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
_________________
Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher; Registered Nurse
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
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shofar
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Tongue Level Reply with quote

John Mohan is absolutely spot on. All these books, including Daily Trumpet Routines and Thirty Velocity Studies! Systematic Approach, are great. Claude had me in each one of these and I loved it.

I had the privilege to work with John this past Fri and Sat. And to hang while racing down the interstate in his red 240Z. What a blast. Almost as much fun as playing trumpet...LOL!!

Talk at y'all soon.

Roger Wood
MD BattleOfTheBigBands.com
screamin_raptor@mac.com
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a fan of SA and Gordon, but I'll also put forth another book that most of you probalby have not seen for the tongue level exercises: Ed Tarr's Natural/Baroque trumpet method book, especially the first volume. ( https://www.baroquetrumpet.com/collections/music-methods-orchestral-books/products/art-of-baroque-trumpet-playing-by-edward-tarr ) Whip through some of these if you understand the purpose of the tongue in changing registers. Ditto Colin Advanced Lip Flexibilities 1 & 2, Irons, etc. (I know this is the Gordon Forum and I've used SA for myself and students and attended several Gordon workshops back in the day. Just putting forth more info.) Good luck.
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EricV
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to recall that Eric Bolvin (EBJazz) wrote a couple of detailed posts in here maybe 3-4 years ago about how to practice this book, it would be worth looking back through Erics old posts to find them.

Cheers
Eric
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Tongue Level Reply with quote

shofar wrote:
John Mohan is absolutely spot on. All these books, including Daily Trumpet Routines and Thirty Velocity Studies! Systematic Approach, are great. Claude had me in each one of these and I loved it.

I had the privilege to work with John this past Fri and Sat. And to hang while racing down the interstate in his red 240Z. What a blast. Almost as much fun as playing trumpet...LOL!!

Talk at y'all soon.

Roger Wood
MD BattleOfTheBigBands.com
screamin_raptor@mac.com





Yep, we had a great time! Everyone should check out Roger's Battle of the Big Bands website and go out and see the show when it's in your area!

http://www.battleofthebigbands.com/
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
I'm a fan of SA and Gordon, but I'll also put forth another book that most of you probalby have not seen for the tongue level exercises: Ed Tarr's Natural/Baroque trumpet method book, especially the first volume. ( https://www.baroquetrumpet.com/collections/music-methods-orchestral-books/products/art-of-baroque-trumpet-playing-by-edward-tarr ) Whip through some of these if you understand the purpose of the tongue in changing registers. Ditto Colin Advanced Lip Flexibilities 1 & 2, Irons, etc. (I know this is the Gordon Forum and I've used SA for myself and students and attended several Gordon workshops back in the day. Just putting forth more info.) Good luck.


Absolutely! As Claude wrote in the text portion of Daily Trumpet Routines: "There are many fine books published with a wealth of flexibility material. The ambitious player should acquire all such material that he can find."
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BBB1976
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:50 am    Post subject: Tongue Level Exercises Reply with quote

Hey John, yeah sure. It's all the same stuff isn't it!
I really like Colin, irons, schlossberg. At the moment am into Flexus by Laurie Frink.
Another fine book, but like all these things, its HOW you approach it!

Best.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject: Re: Tongue Level Exercises Reply with quote

BBB1976 wrote:
Hey John, yeah sure. It's all the same stuff isn't it!
I really like Colin, irons, schlossberg. At the moment am into Flexus by Laurie Frink.
Another fine book, but like all these things, its HOW you approach it!

Best.


Yep. The secret is know what, how, and when to practice. And then to go ahead and practice.

Have a great day!
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oxleyk
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone else have a misprint in exercise 3 of section 1? In measure d the 16th note pattern is flipped as in exercise 2.

Kent
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Tongue Level Exercises Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
BBB1976 wrote:
Hey John, yeah sure. It's all the same stuff isn't it!
I really like Colin, irons, schlossberg. At the moment am into Flexus by Laurie Frink.
Another fine book, but like all these things, its HOW you approach it!

Best.


Yep. The secret is know what, how, and when to practice. And then to go ahead and practice.

Have a great day!
I thought Kenny Rogers summed it up best myself, and I'm no country listener...
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umum_cypher
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Joined: 12 Aug 2019
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Location: London, GB

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi CG-ers

I've looked for posts on this topic but with no success. Apologies if it's already been covered somewhere.

Anyway, in the CG tongue level book, there is an instruction to both slur and tongue the exercises from a certain point onward. I've taken this to mean that, on the tongued run-through, a 4th-space Eb (for instance) should be on 2+3.

But of course a 2+3 Eb isn't quite where a true Eb lies, and I'm trying to marry pitch, sound and tongue level in as precise a way as possible.

So my question is, have I got the wrong end of the stick, or is there a benefit to the false fingering that I'm missing?

Thanks for your advice.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

umum_cypher wrote:
Hi CG-ers

I've looked for posts on this topic but with no success. Apologies if it's already been covered somewhere.

Anyway, in the CG tongue level book, there is an instruction to both slur and tongue the exercises from a certain point onward. I've taken this to mean that, on the tongued run-through, a 4th-space Eb (for instance) should be on 2+3.

But of course a 2+3 Eb isn't quite where a true Eb lies, and I'm trying to marry pitch, sound and tongue level in as precise a way as possible.

So my question is, have I got the wrong end of the stick, or is there a benefit to the false fingering that I'm missing?

Thanks for your advice.


The benefit is that by keeping the valve position constant throughout each exercise, one will change the notes solely through the use of tongue level, air and lips.

And actually, by maintaining the valve position through each exercise, the notes all end up in tune (relative to the particular set of harmonics one is playing).

Example: When pushing the second and third valves down, the trumpet is now playing in the key of Ab. As such, the Eb above middle C is the fifth of the chord and should be played slightly sharp of equal temperament - and that's where it will play when those valves are pushed down while playing a flexibility exercise that has the notes of the key of Ab.

But if the second valve is pushed down to sound the Eb, now the trumpet is playing in the key of B and that D#/Eb being sounded is the major third of the B chord and it will lie a bit flat of equal temperament. As such it will sound very flat relative to where it should be when playing a flexibility exercise that is using the notes of an Ab major chord.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
_________________
Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher; Registered Nurse
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oxleyk wrote:
Anyone else have a misprint in exercise 3 of section 1? In measure d the 16th note pattern is flipped as in exercise 2.

Kent


Yes, with the same mistake in measures e and f.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Tongue Level Exercises Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
John Mohan wrote:
BBB1976 wrote:
Hey John, yeah sure. It's all the same stuff isn't it!
I really like Colin, irons, schlossberg. At the moment am into Flexus by Laurie Frink.
Another fine book, but like all these things, its HOW you approach it!

Best.


Yep. The secret is know what, how, and when to practice. And then to go ahead and practice.

Have a great day!
I thought Kenny Rogers summed it up best myself, and I'm no country listener...


Kenny Rogers knows a thing or two about trumpet playing.
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umum_cypher
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much John. Actually, the tuning is OK (I mean, no worse than normal), but that's because I'm working hard to compensate. I was hoping I would be told I could make life easier for myself, but since you say so, I'll stick with it
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