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How to make a trumpet sound more like a flugelhorn


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AHamm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: How to make a trumpet sound more like a flugelhorn Reply with quote

I was just wondering if there was a good way to get more of a flugel tone from a trumpet. I was thinking that the answer may be in a good mouthpiece, that’s why I posted it here. Would a deeper one maybe with a V cup work? Any ideas? Is it just impossible; do I just need a flugel?
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Riojazz
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can get part of the way there by using a special mouthpiece as you describe. GR calls it an FD cup. I believe there are several other manufacturers who offer it when you need a more flugel-like sound but cannot carry one on a plane etc.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A deeper mouthpiece would be predicted to produce a sound more in the direction of a flugelhorn than would a shallower mouthpiece. However, no mouthpiece can make up the difference between the design/engineering/acoustic elements that make a trumpet sound the way it naturally does compared to the design/engineering/acoustics that make a flugelhorn sound the way it naturally does. The two instruments are simply designed to produce a significant difference in their ultimate sound. No mouthpiece can cancel that difference (you would also not be able to make a flugelhorn sound like a trumpet regardless of the mouthpiece).

Both trumpet and flugelhorn produce different textures in their sound. If you want to produce a different texture on trumpet the primary way to do that is with mutes. You can create a substantial difference in sound with mutes. So, if you want a different texture but don't want to buy a flugelhorn or can't afford one the mutes can give you a version of a substantial different texture.

There is no mute that makes a trumpet sound like a flugelhorn. However, there are mutes which can produce a general subdued ambiance which, while not the same as a flugelhorn, can create a very similar mood/effect.
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Ancientram
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:17 pm    Post subject: Making a Trumpet Sound More Like a Flugelhorn Reply with quote

Contact Rob Love at Brasswind Research:

http://brasswindresearch.com/HOME.html

He makes a Model F mouthpiece that does exactly that. I have one and it works a treat.

Steve
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brassmusician
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use a Soulo bucket mute on a jazz gig the other night instead of flugel. Had the desired effect of a darker, much quieter sound (which I needed in the small venue) and seemed to blend nicely with sop and alto sax. Of course it doesn't sound like a flugel.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bucket mute, might be what you're looking for.. EazyBucket or Soulo

Then Mark Curry makes a "trumpet/flugel" piece "TF"....

But you won't really sound like a Flugel, just more mellow a step or two in that direction.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm jaded, because at first I thought you were just another 5-poster headed to the Marketplace. But then I saw your 3 posts are spread out quite a bit (at this rate you're not going to be qualified to list in the Marketplace for another year or two).

If your regular mouthpiece is a Reeves or Purviance piece, then this is definitely what you want:

https://www.bobreeves.com/products/specialty/index.htm

If you play some other mouthpiece, Bob could make up a rim that copies yours and match it to the appropriate size C2J underpart.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard some of the pieces that claim to make the trumpet sound more like a flugel. Truth be told I'm not a big fan. If you could, I'd just shop for a good used flugel. Even the Yamaha student model would likely be more satisfying than a mouthpiece change. And though it's really not the same, a good bucket mute will certainly do in a pinch.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: How to make a trumpet sound more like a flugelhorn Reply with quote

AHamm wrote:
I was just wondering if there was a good way to get more of a flugel tone from a trumpet.

The OP did not say he wanted his horn to sound like a flugelhorn. He is looking for a more flugelhorn sound on a trumpet.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: How to make a trumpet sound more like a flugelhorn Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
AHamm wrote:
I was just wondering if there was a good way to get more of a flugel tone from a trumpet.

The OP did not say he wanted his horn to sound like a flugelhorn. He is looking for a more flugelhorn sound on a trumpet.

He also asked "do I need a flugel?", implying that this is an option. I've only tried to communicate that the change of trumpet mouthpiece I've thus far found to be unsatisfying.
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Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:26 pm    Post subject: Flugel sound on a trumpet Reply with quote

I recently listed a bunch of trumpet stuff including a Bach Mt Vernon 11EW which was modified to a deep V cup and 17 throat. The fellow who had this done was Bobby Hamilton, a top flight lead player. He wanted to be able to sound like a flugel without carrying one with him on the road when needed. It really does work and I tried it on my European flugel which accepts a trumpet shank with good results. Works pretty good on my trumpet as well. Might be what you need at a low price as it still is listed in the TH Marketplace.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com
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J-Walk
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a Bob Reeves 43.5 C2J, which is a very different short shank mouthpiece with a very deep cup and large throat. It is designed to specifically make a trumpet sound like a flugelhorn. It is quite effective when I am not able to bring a flugelhorn with me. Intonation is spot on with these for me as well. https://www.bobreeves.com/products/specialty/index.htm

I am sure other brands accomplish something similar, but I am quite impressed with the way Bob designed these.
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-Walk wrote:
I use a Bob Reeves 43.5 C2J, which is a very different short shank mouthpiece with a very deep cup and large throat. It is designed to specifically make a trumpet sound like a flugelhorn. It is quite effective when I am not able to bring a flugelhorn with me. Intonation is spot on with these for me as well. https://www.bobreeves.com/products/specialty/index.htm

I am sure other brands accomplish something similar, but I am quite impressed with the way Bob designed these.


Hi Jason, I play on a Reeves (when not using my Monette). How is the resistance on the C2J?
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J-Walk
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theslawdawg wrote:
Hi Jason, I play on a Reeves (when not using my Monette). How is the resistance on the C2J?


Not unlike playing a normal flugel. More open for sure than an average trumpet setup. Depends on the trumpet as well. The C2J resistance is alot like my flugel on my Benge 3X+, and a bit more open than that on my Adams A5. I love it on my Benge. It is passable on my A5, but more open than I prefer.
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Jason Rahn
——————
Burbank Benge MLP 3X+
Adams A5
Larson Brasswerks “Reese” Model C
Schilke P5-4 picc
Courtois 154 flugel
A few mouthpieces that fit my face and horns
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-Walk wrote:
theslawdawg wrote:
Hi Jason, I play on a Reeves (when not using my Monette). How is the resistance on the C2J?


Not unlike playing a normal flugel. More open for sure than an average trumpet setup. Depends on the trumpet as well. The C2J resistance is alot like my flugel on my Benge 3X+, and a bit more open than that on my Adams A5. I love it on my Benge. It is passable on my A5, but more open than I prefer.


Thanks for your reply.

I'm always looking for more "fluffy". I play on a Reeves 42B and with the Monette a B6DS1 (which is a deep cup). I noticed with the 42B it's got a tad bit more resistance then the Monette but otherwise just an awesome piece. I'm thinking the C2J will do the trick but concerned it might be too open of a blow.
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J-Walk
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theslawdawg wrote:
J-Walk wrote:
theslawdawg wrote:
Hi Jason, I play on a Reeves (when not using my Monette). How is the resistance on the C2J?


Not unlike playing a normal flugel. More open for sure than an average trumpet setup. Depends on the trumpet as well. The C2J resistance is alot like my flugel on my Benge 3X+, and a bit more open than that on my Adams A5. I love it on my Benge. It is passable on my A5, but more open than I prefer.


Thanks for your reply.

I'm always looking for more "fluffy". I play on a Reeves 42B and with the Monette a B6DS1 (which is a deep cup). I noticed with the 42B it's got a tad bit more resistance then the Monette but otherwise just an awesome piece. I'm thinking the C2J will do the trick but concerned it might be too open of a blow.


If you want something that feels and sounds flugel-ish, the C2J will be great for you. It has enough resistance to blow comfortably against. Just keep in mind it is significantly deeper than the mouthpieces you are mentioning. It is not just a deep trumpet mouthpiece. It is like a deep flugel mouthpiece.
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Jason Rahn
——————
Burbank Benge MLP 3X+
Adams A5
Larson Brasswerks “Reese” Model C
Schilke P5-4 picc
Courtois 154 flugel
A few mouthpieces that fit my face and horns
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theslawdawg
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Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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Location: Waikiki, Hawaii

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-Walk wrote:
theslawdawg wrote:
J-Walk wrote:
theslawdawg wrote:
Hi Jason, I play on a Reeves (when not using my Monette). How is the resistance on the C2J?


Not unlike playing a normal flugel. More open for sure than an average trumpet setup. Depends on the trumpet as well. The C2J resistance is alot like my flugel on my Benge 3X+, and a bit more open than that on my Adams A5. I love it on my Benge. It is passable on my A5, but more open than I prefer.


Thanks for your reply.

I'm always looking for more "fluffy". I play on a Reeves 42B and with the Monette a B6DS1 (which is a deep cup). I noticed with the 42B it's got a tad bit more resistance then the Monette but otherwise just an awesome piece. I'm thinking the C2J will do the trick but concerned it might be too open of a blow.


If you want something that feels and sounds flugel-ish, the C2J will be great for you. It has enough resistance to blow comfortably against. Just keep in mind it is significantly deeper than the mouthpieces you are mentioning. It is not just a deep trumpet mouthpiece. It is like a deep flugel mouthpiece.


Thank you for the advice, Jason.

I'm not scared!
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delano
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play (sometimes) my Concept TT trumpet (with a Yamaha 14F4 flügelmouthpiece via a Bob Reeves flügel-trumpet adapter. Works very good especially on a heavy trumpet I presume.
A real flügel is better.
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sanborn_chase
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this video I compare the GR FD hybrid mouthpiece to trumpet, flugelhorn and cornet.

https://youtu.be/7tMoCzofD7I
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.currympc.com/index.php?id=47

The Curry TF (Trumpet-Flugel) piece does what the Reeves does at about half the price.

I have a TF with my custom C60 rim and I used to have a Reeves 42C2J.
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