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Lorenzo100 New Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2019 Posts: 10 Location: Paris
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Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:09 pm Post subject: Help before going for a Besson horn |
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Hi all
As the tradition demands, and as this is my first post here, a (quick) intro about me : I live in Paris, I'm 49 years old, bass/guitar/drums background, I decided last year it was about time to try wind instruments. I chose the trumpet quite randomly, and got instantly hooked to the point where I spend all my lunch breaks in the underground parking at my job, practicing like a madman; already got two horns - a study one bought on a famous German website + an antique that barely plays but looks so great. And not even talking about my relatives nerves...
Now after almost one year, my playing slowly distinguish from an asthmatic elephant and I can start to actually make nice sounds in the mid range - A above the staff is my personal Everest so far.
To cut a long story short : I'm a beginner, but I'm determined
Now here's my Q : I tried today a used Besson horn - New Creation Class A. Looks good, sounds excellent - compared to my Chinese toy - and plays rather easily. I love it, and the seller asks for what looks like a reasonable price - 300€
Why hesitating ?
Because I'm confused with the serial number :
- 323005 : if I refer to this source https://www.vancouverconcertband.ca/images/pdfdocuments/bandh_handlists_web.pdf it dates between 1960 - 1961. Do you guys confirm or do I get something wrong ?
- The first too digits looks weird, like unaligned with the others and a bit like they were "over stamped". Am I being paranoïde here ?
- they are engraved upside down (valves buttons are down when you read). Is it normal ? I'lm not used to this exercice, maybe it's all normal
Again, maybe I should not worry and give it a go for just 300€ - but I like to know what I buy. Does it look good or do you smell some BS here ?
Thanks a lot !
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Mike Prestage Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 714 Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:15 am Post subject: |
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The words New Creation and Class A appeared on English Besson instruments over a long time period. I don't know for a fact that there were horns made in the early 60s with these bell markings but it seems perfectly plausible.
I imagine the serial number is on the bell near the valves. If so, the fact that it reads upside-down doesn't seem odd at all to me. The stamping of the first two digits does sound unusual but I personally wouldn't see this as an indicator that the trumpet isn't what it appears. Post-war English Besson trumpets aren't valuable enough to be a likely target for any sophisticated faking. (Interestingly, there are quite a lot of very poorly made trumpets around with a fraudulent bell stamp intended to imitate English Besson horns but these are very easy to spot as non-genuine. The name is spelt 'Bessons' and the name of another maker, Boosey is also stamped, which it wouldn't be on any real Besson.)
I suppose it's possible that the serial number was altered to mask the identity of a stolen instrument but I'd only be concerned about this possibility if it looked really messy.
Mike |
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Lorenzo100 New Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2019 Posts: 10 Location: Paris
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Mike. When you say "Post-war English Besson trumpets aren't valuable enough to be a likely target for any sophisticated faking" do you mean they are still good for the money - 300€ - or a bad deal altogether ?
Thanks - I'm actually on the verge on deciding, supposed to try it again in a few minutes |
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Steve Hollahan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 518 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 am Post subject: Besson trumpet |
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One of the most counterfeited horn ever. However, if it plays great, buy it. _________________ Steve Hollahan
Bach 37, 229 C
Yamaha 9620 D-Eb, 741 C, Flugel
Kanstul 900 piccolo trumpet
Sculptured Recrafting Custom Instrument Repair
and Restoration
www.sculpturedrecrafting.com |
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Mike Prestage Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 714 Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Steve, were you thinking of French Bessons? With the exception of the extremely crude 'Boosey Bessons' horns I referenced in my post, I've never heard of any sort of counterfeiting in relation to English Besson trumpets.
Mike |
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Mike Prestage Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 714 Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Lorenzo, 300 Euros seems entirely reasonable to me if you personally like the horn. It isn't anything particularly sought-after but AFAIK all the horns marked 'New Creation' were decent quality instruments. If it's in good condition, it will almost certainly play better than a worn-out example of a more 'desirable' vintage horn. Probably much better!
Mike |
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supercow216 Regular Member
Joined: 02 Nov 2018 Posts: 60 Location: Finland
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Hi Lorenze,
bring a tuner with you.
My experience will old Besson is that they sound beautiful but the intonation is very dubious. A low G can sound F#, high E become Eb. This may itch you if you have a good ear (if you play music before, I suppose you have or will develop).
300e is about the right price for an old Besson in Paris. also you can check Feeling Musique (near metro Europe), sometimes they have nice used Besson trumpet and cornet there. _________________ Oink, oink.
I am still learning! |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2660 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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The easiest way to go is avoid - always - English B&H and Besson instruments. Use the KISS principal, (keep it simple stupid) applies to so many things in our world.
Picking trumpets is one of them.
Cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Lorenzo100 New Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2019 Posts: 10 Location: Paris
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Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:19 am Post subject: |
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OK thank you all. Finally bought it, need a bit of cleaning / oiling but otherwise, sounds great - night and day compared to my Chinese stuff. True that some notes sound a bit out of pitch but my embouchure being far from perfect, it might be me |
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Lorenzo100 New Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2019 Posts: 10 Location: Paris
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Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:20 am Post subject: |
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Andy Del wrote: | The easiest way to go is avoid - always - English B&H and Besson instruments. Use the KISS principal, (keep it simple stupid) applies to so many things in our world.
Picking trumpets is one of them.
Cheers
Andy |
Can you elaborate ? what's the pb with English made Besson ? |
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FrankM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2011 Posts: 545 Location: Lincolnshire England
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Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:50 am Post subject: |
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If it's a genuine Class A New Creation it should have an extra section in the tuning slide that facilitates a longer than normal extension to put the tuning in 'A'. These were highly regarded in their day and famously used by Kenny Ball and Eddie Calvert. Cheers. _________________ Fairly large collection. Favourites:-
Eclipse Bb Tpt
Yamaha 6335H Bb Tpt
Besson Meha Bb Tpt
Selmer 99 Radial
Conn Connstelation 36B
Conn Connstelation 28A
B&H Sovereign Cornet
Yamaha 635T Flugel Horn. |
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Lorenzo100 New Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2019 Posts: 10 Location: Paris
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Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:25 am Post subject: |
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FrankM wrote: | If it's a genuine Class A New Creation it should have an extra section in the tuning slide that facilitates a longer than normal extension to put the tuning in 'A'. These were highly regarded in their day and famously used by Kenny Ball and Eddie Calvert. Cheers. |
Actually, it has this extra section - I was wondering what was the use of this |
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