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bradnott New Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2019 Posts: 10
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:00 am Post subject: Curry Cornet MP question |
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I have a 1927 Conn Victor (80a) and have read on these forums that a great mouthpiece option for that kind of horn is a Curry Precision cornet mouthpiece with a Conn short shank.
Do any of the Curry cornet mouthpieces come with a Conn short shank, or are all of the short shank mouthpieces custom jobs?
I ask because it would be great to buy one of these mouthpieces, but I want to be sure that I'm buying what others have recommended and not something for a more modern leadpipe receiver.
Oh, and I intend to use the horn for traditional jazz so I'm not looking for a huge cup. Probably something in the middle to capture the cornet tone but add some brightness and projection that aren't hallmarks of the deeper cups.
Thanks! |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: |
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From the Curry website...
"Special Cornet Shanks
"C" Conn short cornet blank now available! Pre-1958 (serial numbers less than 700,00) Conn cornet afficianados can now order their favorite Curry cornet cup in the correct size for these popular cornets. At 2.5" long with the correct 60 thousandths/inch taper (and correct shank diameter) these vintage cornets speak easier with better intonation! Thanks to Rick Henrickson of NYC and Alan Hancock (UK) for their insightful help and research. For more, check out this informative link http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/ConnArticle34.html." _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: |
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If you look at the Curry website, the information you seek is there.
http://www.currympc.com/index.php?id=49 _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2412 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 am Post subject: |
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I have a vintage Curry cornet mouthpiece, the "3VC.". I believe they provide the VC (vintage) style in every size. On my "3VC.", the shank is shorter, and it's a deep V cup. In addition, the rim is narrow and flat, and is nothing like their "3C." rim. Also FWIW, the short shank, deep V cup, and narrow/flat rim is similar to the Yamaha short shank cornet mouthpieces.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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bradnott New Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2019 Posts: 10
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the pointers. So the early Conn short shank does appear to be a custom order option.
I'm close to one of the dealers they list on the Curry site, so I will probably go and test some mouthpieces out in person sometime soon. That should help me get a good feel for the various rim shape/size and cup combinations in the Curry line. |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2652 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:56 am Post subject: |
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For your intended use, I would recommend the Curry P mouthpiece. It is not that shallow and adds a sparkle to the sound that really works for the old jazz stuff.
Also, I've never noticed any issues using the standard Curry cornet mouthpieces on any of my old Conns. I've never bothered with ordering a special Conn shank. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2412 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:56 am Post subject: |
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bradnott wrote: | Thanks for the pointers. So the early Conn short shank does appear to be a custom order option. |
Correct. The short shank Curry mouthpieces are stock, not custom. I got mine pretty quickly from Osmun Music (I think).
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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agroovin48 Regular Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2014 Posts: 94 Location: Goodyear, Arizona
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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I ordered a Conn short shank 7VC from Curry about 4 years ago and use it with my 1933 80A. The cornet sounds almost identical when played with the original Conn Wonder mouthpiece. It produces a brighter sound than larger mouthpieces such as a 3 or a 5, but still has the cornet mellowness to it. It is also a very comfortable mouthpiece to play. It may not be what one would want for a British Brass Band, but it produces the kind of sparkle that I like. _________________ agroovin48
Alan Cahill
1933 Conn Victor 80A Cornet
King Legend 2070
Adams A1V2 |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9003 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Conn New Wonder with a Curry 5VC here. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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bradnott New Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2019 Posts: 10
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate the support everyone! I love my old Conn and look forward to experimenting with some mouthpieces to find one that helps me take advantage of the character of a nearly 100 year-old horn.
I'm already amazed at how responsive (sensitive?) it is to variations in mouthpiece design after trying some different options. It's clear that there are better options for this horn, and some real horrible choices too... |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2652 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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And then there is the vintage mouthpiece approach. I have mouthpieces that were made at the same time as the instruments they were made for. I'll never go back to modern mouthpieces. My favorite trumpet is a Cleveland Toreador from 1937. The Cleveland T mouthpiece works perfectly. I have a 1937 King Silvertone cornet that also works well with a Cleveland C mouthpiece. See what I'm saying? The same mouthpiece really, really works so well with the H. N. White "The Clevelander" cornet.
Oh yes, the Cleveland mouthpieces are T and C for trumpet and cornet. Things were simpler then. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Denny Schreffler Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 390 Location: Tucson
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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TrumpetMD wrote: |
Correct. The short shank Curry mouthpieces are stock, not custom. ...
Mike |
Well, yes, the “short shank Curry mouthpieces” are, in fact stock – not custom – but they are not the special models that Mark makes for the old Conns and do not have the correct taper and diameter for the old Conns ← that is the special order.
A point often overlooked/misinterpreted/ignored in these discussions is that the “old” Conn cornet pieces were not only short-shank but also had a proprietary taper and diameter as cheiden pointed out in his quote from Mark’s site – with the correct 60 thousandths/inch taper (and correct shank diameter).
Ordering a “short-shank” Curry cornet piece will not give the optimum fit (but see below*). I have the same Curry VC piece – with the same length short shank – both in the “standard” version and the Conn version. The Conn version fits tight-and-sure in a ‘41 and a ‘48 cornet whereas the non-Conn has a tiny bit of wobble potential. The two pieces also play slightly differently with favor going to the Conn.
*That said, another pertinent point is that many of the old Conn cornet receivers have been widened over the years by the use of larger-shanked mpcs being forced into them – so, an old Conn cornet that has been (ab)used in this way might take a standard taper, long-shank piece better than a piece with the correct length, taper, and diameter.
That said – again – the 80A is versatile and forgiving. I play an 80A a lot and even though my main piece for that horn is a custom Stork (with an ultrashort shank), I’ve used long-shanked pieces from Tottle, Marcinkiewicz, and Bach on occasion, always being careful to let the over-sized shanks rest gently in the receiver.
-Denny |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:42 am Post subject: |
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Denny here above is spot on. A Conn short shank is longer (it's 2.5") than a regular short shank like the normal VC (the VC is about 4 mm shorter).
And the Conn short cornet shank has a little bit faster taper.
BTW the Curry VC is not for everyone, it's more of a fun mp for ancient sounds.
Most Curry mp's are on the bright side. For playing a 80A is that not necessarily a problem, the trad players played often trumpet cups on it. I own a Curry BBC with special Conn shank (there is a C engraved on the shank) and that is quite an allround cornet mouthpiece. Not very deep with a true cornet sound but not too much. I'm not sure you can play the Tigerrag on it well, it could lack projection.
In my experience the old Conn cornets play rather well with a normal short shank cornet mouthpiece, more in particular: the Denis Wick mp's. And they wobble only a tiny little bit in the old Conn receiver. Long shank is more problematic (resistance, intonation). |
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bradnott New Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2019 Posts: 10
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Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Richard III wrote: | For your intended use, I would recommend the Curry P mouthpiece. It is not that shallow and adds a sparkle to the sound that really works for the old jazz stuff.
Also, I've never noticed any issues using the standard Curry cornet mouthpieces on any of my old Conns. I've never bothered with ordering a special Conn shank. |
Thanks for the suggestion! I just had a chance to try a 3P and completely agree with the "sparkle" comment. The cup is a little shallow, but not so much that I bottom out on it, so playing with a bright tone or mellow tone is pretty easy. |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9343 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Conn Improved precision, Conn Precision "short shank", and Wick cornet mouthpieces for a length comparison.
_________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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chapahi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 1465 Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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I got a Conn short shank Curry 10.5 that's based on a Mouint Vernon 10.5. Great mouthpiece. Sadly I don't have the Conn 12A anymore... _________________ Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super |
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