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dbis New Member
Joined: 01 Jun 2019 Posts: 4
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Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:03 pm Post subject: Yamaha 8310z vs Bach 180S43 |
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I am looking for a new trumpet for my son in High school, he plays in both the Jazz band and Honor/marching band. (He will use his current horn for Marching band, the new one only for Jazz and concert season).
I took him to a "horn" event at our local music store and he really liked the Yamaha 8310Z he kept trying other trumpets and he really liked the Bach 180S43 as well. We were going to compare them side by side, but someone bought the 8310Z and it was the only one they had.
He liked the 8310z the most, but it was at least 30 minutes since he played in before he tried the Bach, so the store is going to get both instruments again for him to be able to try him side by side.
I don't know anything about trumpets myself and been trying to read through the forms. I am just wondering if there is a reason for either trumpet not being a good fit for both Jazz and concert playing? I want to let him select the trumpet that he feels most comfortable with, but also don't want to make an expensive mistake.
Thanks in advance. |
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Christian K. Peters Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2001 Posts: 1530 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:08 pm Post subject: 8210Z vs 180s43 |
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Hello dbis,
I think your son needs another go round with trials. Maybe with a few more models also. the 8310Z, I believe is a medium bore horn, and will play pretty efficiently. The Bach 43 is a medium large bore that, in my opinion could play just as bright as the 8310Z, but with a little more volume. For concert band playing, the 43 with a slightly deeper mouthpiece would probably be just fine. I would have him try the reverse leadpipe, 8335 Yamaha and a Bach 37. I would even throw in a Schilke S32 or S33 into the mix. You are talking mid $2000's anyway...personally, I am not a fan of medium bore trumpets. Your son needs to be comfortable on what ever he chooses though. It is ultimately his choice. He can always get another horn in the future when he understands better what he needs and wants. PM me for any more specifics on what I said, if you need to. _________________ Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976 |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2028 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:34 am Post subject: |
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You are approaching this the right way. When he does have a chance to compare them side by side, perhaps you could arrange for his teacher or another experienced musician to be present (or you, if you are an experienced musician). That way someone could offer an informed opinion regarding which trumpet he sounds better on.
The Bach 18043 is a fine horn that would work well for many players in jazz and concert band. As for the Yamaha 8310Z, I've never played one, but it is a popular model. I don't think you'd be courting disaster either way.
Good luck! |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3298 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:51 am Post subject: |
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A consideration is whether (and how) the trumpet will be used after HS.
If there's an intent to play in a 'serious' concert orchestra (high level amateur or pro level), then a horn like the 8310Z might be viewed as not being a good fit (its sound might be seen as too jazz or commercial oriented).
For typical 'adult amateur' playing situations, I think the main consideration should be a horn that plays in-tune without needing much use of the slides or lip manipulation. Use an electronic tuner to check all the pitches, they won't all be perfect, but shouldn't be too far off.
Be sure that the 'mechanics' of the horn are working very well - good valve action / no sticking, etc. (and be wary of claims that they will eventually break-in after a while). The slides should all move 'as desired' not too tight or loose. Examine all the joints where parts are soldered together, there shouldn't be voids, slop, or rough edges. Water valves should work and seal properly.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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dbis New Member
Joined: 01 Jun 2019 Posts: 4
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Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:39 am Post subject: Yamaha 8310z vs Bach 180S43 |
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Thank you all for the responses.
As far as the comment about trying out other models, they had several models at the event. He did like the 8335RS but not the regular 8335, he also liked the Back 1B but not the 180S37.
Model selection was fair (probably about 10 different models with multiple of the common models). I would love for him to try other models and brands I have seen mentioned on these forums, but most stores we have looked at only have a couple of trumpets in stock to try and they are typically (1 or 2) Yamaha and Bach with the rest being student trumpets.
Personally I have never played an instrument, so I am just trying to help by reading on the forums and making sure we don't make a wrong decision. I can certainly see if his band director is willing to come out and listen too.
As far as after high school, he is currently a sophomore. He wants to keep playing, but is hoping to do pre-med so I don't know what opportunities there will be in college if he goes that route. Main focus is high school right now, but the ability to use it in college would be great. |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Don't forget about the 19043 or 37. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2048 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Depending on wehre you are, a trip to Dillons or similar may be useful. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Christian K. Peters Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2001 Posts: 1530 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:51 am Post subject: 8310Z versus 190S43 |
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Hello all,
He liked the 8335RS and the 8310Z was a true favorite... The reverse leadpipes do have an attribute that some people like over the traditional. I hope your son finds a Schilke to try. A B2, S33HD against the 8310Z would tell him much. _________________ Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976 |
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dbis New Member
Joined: 01 Jun 2019 Posts: 4
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Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:05 pm Post subject: Yamaha 8310z vs Bach 180S43 |
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Thanks everyone for the replies on the forum as well as the PM's.
I live close to the DFW area in TX, I have tried to google search music stores but all that really comes up is Music and Arts etc. All these nationwide stores only have a couple of instruments and most of them are the same.
We were excited about this event at a Music and Arts as he could try out multiple horns at one location. But they were limited to Yamaha, Bach and Shire. If anyone knows of any other stores in this area with different brands that we could try, I would appreciate it. |
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JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 894 Location: Nissa, France
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Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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hello
if he liked better the 8310Z, why complicate things if it's not a money consideration ?
it's really a great horn, beautiful sound for whatever style, and very efficient.
best |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:21 am Post subject: |
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JVL wrote: | hello
if he liked better the 8310Z, why complicate things if it's not a money consideration ?
it's really a great horn, beautiful sound for whatever style, and very efficient.
best |
This is the most to-the-point comment. Great horn, the 8310Z, you can play anything on it. |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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delano wrote: | JVL wrote: | hello
if he liked better the 8310Z, why complicate things if it's not a money consideration ?
it's really a great horn, beautiful sound for whatever style, and very efficient.
best |
This is the most to-the-point comment. Great horn, the 8310Z, you can play anything on it. |
I'm a recent convert. The more I play it the more I like it. It is not just for jazz players. Former Canadian Brass players Ron Romm and Jens Lindeman both play or have played that model. |
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AJCarter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2007 Posts: 1280 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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JayKosta wrote: |
If there's an intent to play in a 'serious' concert orchestra (high level amateur or pro level), then a horn like the 8310Z might be viewed as not being a good fit (its sound might be seen as too jazz or commercial oriented).
For typical 'adult amateur' playing situations, I think the main consideration should be a horn that plays in-tune without needing much use of the slides or lip manipulation. Use an electronic tuner to check all the pitches, they won't all be perfect, but shouldn't be too far off.
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Ed, JVL, and Delano are right. It is a great horn. I hated the first generation, but the second generation is great. I also heard an urban legend that a principal player in a major orchestra used an 8310Z during his audition. That he won. _________________ (List horns here) |
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dbis New Member
Joined: 01 Jun 2019 Posts: 4
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:23 pm Post subject: Trumpet bought |
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Just wanted to post an update that we were able to try out the Yamaha 8310ZII and the Back 180S43 yesterday and he liked the Yamaha a lot more and we ended up buying it.
As mentioned we tried this at an event hosted by Music and Arts. They currently have 20% off purchases of $199 or up with a max discount of $500. Yamaha is listed as excluded, but our local Music and Arts manager (Burleson TX) says that it applies to all instruments in store. I don't know if he is right or not, but I always see Yamaha and Bach excluded so if you're shopping for a new instrument you might hit up a music and arts store. |
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Steve A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1808 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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AJCarter wrote: | I also heard an urban legend that a principal player in a major orchestra used an 8310Z during his audition. That he won. |
Frits Damrow played one, and sounded pretty great on it. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Trumpet bought |
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dbis wrote: | Just wanted to post an update that we were able to try out the Yamaha 8310ZII and the Back 180S43 yesterday and he liked the Yamaha a lot more and we ended up buying it.
As mentioned we tried this at an event hosted by Music and Arts. They currently have 20% off purchases of $199 or up with a max discount of $500. Yamaha is listed as excluded, but our local Music and Arts manager (Burleson TX) says that it applies to all instruments in store. I don't know if he is right or not, but I always see Yamaha and Bach excluded so if you're shopping for a new instrument you might hit up a music and arts store. |
Glad you decided on a horn that he liked!
I used to teach lessons in two local M and A stores, and once bought a Yamaha from them myself. Generally, I think they will negotiate on price, to some extent, especially if you talk to a store manager.
Hope he enjoys his new Yamaha!
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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MiddleStaff Regular Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2019 Posts: 13 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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+1 on Ed Kennedy’s post.
The Bach Strad. 190-43 is something your son should demo. The leadpipe is like the pre mid 1970’s Stads which is a tad more open. The slower taper of the #43 bell should let him play those different music groups mentioned with the projection and height desired. They also come with nylon and brass valve alignment clips so he can adjust his feel. Granted, the 50th Anniversary horns are pricey. _________________ 1972 Bach Strad model 180 with #37 bell
Yamaha YFH-631GS Flugelhorn |
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