Opinions: most in tune Flugel out of the box regardless of $

[Rod Haney]

I have never cared for the intonation of flugels I’ve played, and it could be my technique. Better players than me have often affirmed my feelings on this. Is this a generally held opinion, or are actually brands/models in tune low g to hi c or so. I know this can vary on any trumpet as well, but my experience is the swings are greater. Can anyone recommend an in tune piece that’s easy playing? Trumpet will remain my main axe.
Rod

[Jon Arnold]

Conn Vintage One or Adams.

[Jon Arnold]

I would also say I have found success with Pickett and ACB flugel mouthpieces. That is also a factor in the equation.

[lipshurt]

hmmmmm
Ive always thought that most flugels are nicely in tune, with the exception of high D first sometimes. All of my flugels I liked for pitch except maybe my bach 183, but i just did not like it much.

even the adalucia brand asian flugel is pretty good. I like yamaha 631 intonation too. Also my getzen eterna was good that way.

Its true that you have to have the right mouthpiece shank, but even that is pretty forgiving.

If you are complaining about low D and C# then make sure you get a trigger.
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[TKSop]

Eclipse.

Nothing I've played came close.

Having said that, I'd say probably 95%+ of the flugels I see in championship bands are either Bach or Yamaha - admittedly these are in the hands of players capable of manipulating them, but intonation is very important in this setting.


I've played some instruments with poor intonation, but nothing comes close to the Courtois 159R a previous band owned - it sat in the cupboard unplayed for a reason, absolutely godawful (far, far worse than the UMI Benge 3 I inherited and suffer on the odd occasion I need one).

[maynard-46]

Yamaha 631G...hands down!

Butch
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TRUMPE: YAMAHA Lacq. "Shew Gen II" / Legends .585 "CatMaster" Top / KT "TKO" BB / Reeves #5.75 Sleeve.
FLUGELHORN: ADAMS Custom "F1" / Legends .585 "CatMaster FL.

[oliver king]

Adams with an ACB 1.25CSMDF
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Adams F1
Olds Super Tenor Trombone
Alesis QS8
B2MS3, B2GS3,

[ChopsGone]

YMMV. Personally I have never had a problem with flugelhorn intonation, although an old rotary valve Stowasser takes its fair share of lipping. My choices for best intonation are Wild Thing, Kanstul ZKF-1525 (both of which I still own), Adams F1, and Olds L12 (both of which I have owned; I prefer a GR/Melk pipe in the Olds although the difference is modest). Even a Jupiter 846, which is very like the Yamaha others mentioned) played just fine with minimal tweaking. My granddaughter likes her late model Besson.
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Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....

[shofarguy]

Back in the 1970s, Byron Autrey working with Zig Kanstul created a mathematical model for the bell branch taper. This is what solved the intonation problems with the flugelhorn. If a flugelhorn design uses this model it is more likely to be in tune.

I have played Kanstul's 925, 1025, 1525 and the Kanstul-built Wild Thing flugelhorn. All of them play in tune. Other brands also play in tune.

I was contacted by one player who asked me if he could try my WT to see if it was better than the horn he had, which was a European model I don't recall. He had trouble playing octaves in tune, but I had no intonation issues at all when I played it. I realized that his tone was thin and pinched on ascending scales, but would immediately open up with lovely rich tone when he turned the scale and descended. He was pinching his embouchure as he played higher, which was messing with his intonation. I was not the first person to tell him this and he was discouraged that the problem was his technique and that he would have to alter his playing in order to solve the issue.

It can be done. I did.
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Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[zaferis]

..I found that many Flugels are pretty terrible pitch wise; at least a bigger spread than trumpet world (especially guys that don't have decent Flugels or care about mouthpiece compatibility).. They are more sensitive to mouthpiece selection than trumpets.. AND if the mouthpiece is deep so get an beautiful warm sound, that's fluffy but harder to tune. I will say I work with a lot of good players that THINK their Flugel plays in-tune.. OR maybe they just don't care....

anyway:

Van Laar
Adams
Olds Custom..
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[HERMOKIWI]

I understand that the OP is asking for an opinion. The problem with an opinion is that it typically involves some degree of subjectivity which is limited by the actual experience of the player expressing the opinion.

How many among us have play tested all the flugelhorns which might be considered the most inherently in tune? I would suspect that there may be no one responding here who fits that description. So, opinions have to be considered with such limitations.

Flugelhorns are inherently squirrelly instruments in terms of intonation. They do not slot like trumpets and, intentionally or otherwise, the pitches are more easily varied by the player. These are characteristics which endear flugelhorns to many players. Flugelhorns can be very expressive instruments.

Since the player is an important part of the formula different players can have widely varying impressions of any particular horn (including a trumpet) as to intonation, slotting, response, sound and all the other elements involved in evaluating and classifying a horn. As the saying goes, what do you get when two players play test the same horn? The answer is "three opinions."

Where inherent intonation is concerned I haven't seen any scientific study eliminating the human element addressing the issue and until one exists this topic is likely to be controversial/highly opinionated.

I have two flugelhorns: A Kanstul 1525 and an Adams F2. They both play in tune if I do my job. That being said, my approach, consciously or subconsciously, is to play them in tune by ear, automatically making whatever adjustments are necessary in the moment. My impressions are (1) this is normal for flugelhorns and (2) neither horn requires more adjustments than the other.

I think that flugelhorns are somewhat sensitive to mouthpiece choices and that it's possible for a particular mouthpiece to change the player's impression of the inherent intonation of the horn. Using the same mouthpiece in two different horns can give the player different impressions. Although the impressions may be valid for that player other players, using various mouthpieces, may have much different impressions.

Even the best, most inherently in tune flugelhorn can be played way out of tune. At the end of the day I think that consciously or subconsciously we all make intonation adjustments by ear and our ability to do that skews our impression of the inherent intonation of the horn.
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HERMOKIWI

[scottfsmith]

[petersenpbiker]

I agree with HERMOKIWI:

[Rod Haney]

Thanks for all the feedback. The issues I have could very well be related to the mouthpieces I’m most comfortable with. I normally have good to very good pitch control with trumpets and my current mp’s. I normally play on 630 width pieces with shallow v cups. These don’t come with flugel shanks, and the buckets I’ve seen only hurt my intonation tone and range, high and low.

I think I will just stay with trumpet as I’m just starting to get ahead on it🤯🎺
Rod

[cheiden]

Pretty sure you wouldn't want shallow V on a flugel. Ever look into the Reeves size 40 pieces? I'm sure they can make suitable rim with any of their flugel cups and any shank.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
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Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[dershem]

My Marcinkiewicz is very nicely in tune with itself.
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BKA! Mic Gillette was my mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Mic G. trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc. (Among others)
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[Louise Finch]