Bach 7C to 3C

[Bill_Bumps]

I've been playig a Bach 7C mouthpiece since January. In general I've been satisfied with it, but lately I've been reading a lot of favorable commentary on the 3C. So I ordered one. It arrived today, and I've put it through its first practice session. Here are some of my observations:

-- It feels a lot wider than the 7C. It isn't, but the flatter rim gives it the subjective feel of a broader mouthpiece

-- The 3C seems to me to take more air to produce the same tone. Or maybe I just haven't gotten used to it yet. But it felt to me that I was having to blow a lot more to get the same sound I got from the 7C.

-- It's definitely not as hard on my lips as the 7C. The flatter rim is undeniably easer on my mouth. Soreness, swelling and abrasion are vastly reduced. It will probably give me better endurace, but (see below) I'm still exploring that.

-- The 3C requires a different embouchure from the 7C. I'm still working on finding the right lip placement, and haven't entirely succeeded yet. There's going to be a learning curve before I can play it as predictably as the 7C. I was missing a lot of notes today, trying to get the embouchure right, and only partly succeeding. It's going to take some time and work, I think.

-- One of the benefits of the 3C that some people have mentioned (not necessarily here on this forum) is increased upper range. It's too early for me to say yet, though when I was running scales during my warmup, I found that I could get up to a high A without much trouble. Certainly it was a lot easier than it would have been with the 7C.

At the other end of the spectrum, I was dipping below the staff with better tone and pitch than was usually the case when I was using the 7C. Three problem notes for me have been bottom-of-the-staff C-sharp, D and E-flat, but with the 3C, they sounded noticeably better.

Those are my first impressions of the Bach 3C. The major changes I notice are the different embouchure requirements and the need to push more air through the horn than previously. Or maybe the two are really one; I can't be sure yet. But hopefully, this will be useful information for those who are considering going to the Bach 3C mouthpiece.

[brassmusician]

Two very different mouthpieces. I suspect the feeling of having to blow harder to get the same sound may be due to the flat wider rim which doesn't let your lips vibrate quite as easily as the narrower 7C rim did. But you will adjust to that until you won't notice it anymore. What is your flexibility like on the 3C compared to the 7C? Hope the 3C works out for you, be prepared for take a month or two to decide for sure.
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[Bill_Bumps]

[kehaulani]

You could try a Schilke 11. It was patterned after Bud Herseth's 7C but has a more comfortable rim.
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Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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[Richard III]

I recommend getting off the Bach train. So limited in so many factors. Take a look at Curry or Flip Oakes and your world opens up.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Vin DiBona]

One day on a new mouthpiece is nothing. Unless you are a seasoned pro looking for something specific and have the skill to recognize tiny differences, it takes weeks or months to get accustomed to a new mouthpiece.

Don't fiddle with your embouchure. In fact, don't worry about it. Put the mouthpiece up there and use air. Lack of air flow is what causes a vast majority of playing issues.

Reading a report about about a mouthpiece is not reason to make a change. One makes a change to improve one's playing.

You also don't say how experienced you are. Are you a long time player, comeback player, or relative beginner?

The 3C is popular for many reasons. It does not have a sharp bite on the rim, it is not too wide a diameter, it plays a little easier in the upper register than many C cups, and it is capable of being very versatile - orchestra, jazz, big band, and even lead.

Vincent Bach was a near genius and designed great mouthpieces. Many manufacturers copy them and make what they feel are improvements. Some improvements do help, others make little or no difference.
Hundreds, if not thousands of pros still use them. Bach designed specific sonic characteristics in them as do other other manufacturers do in their own mouthpieces.

I won't recommend specific pieces to players unless I see them in person. I sell GR mouthpieces but if your current mouthpiece works, why change to a different manufacturer or different mouthpiece?

Either learn to play your 3C or go back to your 7C and give it time.
R. Tomasek

[theslawdawg]

Thanks for the intial summary. Let us know how it goes in a month or so.
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[JVL]

hello
i agree with Vin di bona, and seems to me you're struggling too much with the 3C, while you were satisfied with the 7c.
you gave it a try, i think you should see all the frame with a good teacher if you have not one
best

[zaferis]

Yes, what Vin DiBona wrote!
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[DaveH]

I have both, and have spent time playing both the 7C and the 3C. There is a noticeable difference for me in most aspects of my playing. They are two very different mouthpieces.

Some of your observations are similar to mine.

The rims of these two mouthpieces are very different, and I attribute that to the significant playing differences for me.

My opinion is that you will eventually prefer one or the other for some specific reasons. But it will probably take some time to make a decision.

[cheiden]

If you prefer the Bach 3C rim feel over the Bach 7C rim feel there are other pieces available that don't require going to the larger ID and shallower cup. The Yamaha 11C4 is closer in ID to the Bach 7C but the rim is definitely closer in feel to the Bach 3C.
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Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[Bill_Bumps]

[iiipopes]

The big problem with a Bach 3C is that the cup is actually rather shallow, about the same depth as other Bach mouthpieces' D cup, like the 7D and the 10 1/2 D, and is shallower than other Bach mouthpieces' C cups, including the 7C, but still has the #10 backbore. I found a custom Bach 3C with the slightly tighter #76 backbore that is standard for a Bach D cup, and all my issues were solved.
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[Brad361]

[Irving]

BB, if you are happy with the diameter of the 7c, but don't like the rim, why not try a 6C or an 8C? The diameters are close to a 7 C, but the rims are different. The 3c is quite a bit larger than the 7C, and the cup is much shallower, so the 8C or the 6 C would be a much less drastic chamge.

[BobD]

I went from a 7C to a 3C and thought it felt too big. Then tried a Yamaha 14b4 which feels in between the 7C and 3C plus has a comfortable rim. I also have a 14c4 that works good as well.
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[cheiden]

[jadickson]

The modern Bach 7c rim really works for me. I do not love it, but it is obvious that I play well on it. I notice it most when trying to play Clarke studies at pp... the grip of that rim helps me get a clear sound throughout the dynamic range. But I do not love the way the 7c cup plays, the tonal colors, especially at forte.

This week I tried several Bach mouthpieces and discovered the 5B. The rim contour feels very similar to the 7c, but the cup diameter is a little wider which I like. And the tonal colors are amazing. There is obviously a reason the 5B cup is the basis of so many other mouthpieces out there — the Stork Vacchiano line, Pickett mouthpieces, and of course many classical custom pieces like Phil Smith’s.

This is all to say, if you are looking for “like a 7C but better”, you should try the Bach 5B.
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Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
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