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Choice of Horns



 
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NYTrumpet2018
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Joined: 27 Dec 2017
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Location: New York

PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:31 pm    Post subject: Choice of Horns Reply with quote

Hello,


I may have the chance to purchase either a:

1) Martin Troubadour 1920's
2) Martin Handcraft Dansant 1927
3)Martin Handcraft Imperial 1935
4) Conn Constellation 38B 1959

Is there any reason I should choose anyone over the others?
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vwag
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number 3 from what I’ve read on this forum, but don’t have first hand experience.
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Tenring
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 or 4 better all around horns.
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4!
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have some pre-1930 trumpets in my collection. They produce a somewhat tinny bugle-like sound common to trumpets of that era. There is a lot of nostalgia associated with that sound but if you're looking for a horn to play regularly then this era of horn is, to me, too dated in sound quality for that purpose.

So, that leaves the Martin Handcraft Imperial and the Conn Connstellation 38B.


I don't have a Martin Handcraft Imperial and have never played one but I do have two Martin Committee Deluxe trumpets. I like them a lot. My understanding of the Martin Handcraft Imperial is that it has some similarities to the Martin Committee. It's an excellent trumpet players love.

I have a Conn Connstellation 38B. It's a big horn physically, with a very wide wrap and a big bell (although it's a small bore). It's an excellent trumpet but ergonomically it's much bulkier than the Martin Handcraft Imperial and the Connstellation 38B has a 1st valve slide trigger, which I find awkward.

My choice for a daily player would be the Martin Handcraft Imperial.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conn Connstellation 38B is a great horn. In fact, I played the exact same 1959 model. So did my teacher who studied with Schilke and played it as first trumpet in the Honolulu Symphony, too.

Here's a sampler with different styles by Don Jacoby, Have Conn Will Travel,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBXzw7Llhpk&t=1438s
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Conn Connstellation 38B is a great horn. In fact, I played the exact same 1959 model. So did my teacher who studied with Schilke and played it as first trumpet in the Honolulu Symphony, too.

Here's a sampler with different styles by Don Jacoby, Have Conn Will Travel,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBXzw7Llhpk&t=1438s


We were fortunate to get a lot of free tickets last season to see the HSO....
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NYTrumpet2018
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you to everyone for responding.
I will narrow it to the Imperial and 38B.

How do those two compare to a Bach Stradivarius and Yamaha Xeno?
Has anyone had any dealings with GammonBrass.com?

Thanks
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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYTrumpet2018 wrote:
Has anyone had any dealings with GammonBrass.com?
Jacek seems nice enough, but had 2 interactions with him that didn't pan out...one buying, one selling.
Just be careful, epecially because of the exchange rate and shipping from Poland.
IMHO, you could easily find one or both of those horns in the US with alot less risk...
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYTrumpet2018 wrote:
How do those two compare to a Bach Stradivarius and Yamaha Xeno?
Has anyone had any dealings with GammonBrass.com?

Mine didn't compare. Apples and Oranges. That's one reason I liked it.
I should add, though, that it did blend in section work. It didn't stand out from the others. It's just that it responded differently.

I had ordered some accessories from Gammon Brass and the order kept being delayed (I am not impatient) and emails ignored. After some weeks, I finally cancelled my order. YMMV
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Last edited by kehaulani on Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Mike Prestage
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure what to make of Jacek. I've done a couple of trades with him (it's pretty cheap to ship stuff between the UK and Poland) and been happy both times. His eBay listings don't tend to inspire much confidence though. Someone on TH recently linked to a really bizarre one of his which is supposedly a Polish made Kanstul. I don't know enough about the whole Kanstul situation to say for certain it's fraudulent but I'd assume it was until proven otherwise.

If you've set your heart on a vintage American trumpet, the US is one of the best places to buy it from, even if you don't live there! All older horns are risky though unless you're able to play test them or buy from a very reliable source. If you go for the safer option of a used but modern, mainstream horn, you also have great options in the US. I've had eBay buyers for horns in some pretty distant places including in the Americas, but never the US. I think there's a good reason for that

Mike
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYTrumpet2018 wrote:
Thank you to everyone for responding.
I will narrow it to the Imperial and 38B.

How do those two compare to a Bach Stradivarius and Yamaha Xeno?
Has anyone had any dealings with GammonBrass.com?

Thanks


As long as they are in good working condition each of the 4 trumpets will play 100% of the music you want to play as long as you do your part. Each horn will produce its own sound unique from the others. Which sound you, or anyone, prefers is up to you and them, there is no universal agreement on which horn produces the "best sound." In terms of flexibility and response, those attributes involve the interaction of many elements, the horn is just one of the elements, so there's no way to predict with 100% accuracy which horn will be the most flexible and responsive to you.

The Martin Handcraft Imperial, Conn Connstellation 38B, Bach Stradivarius and Yamaha Xeno are all quality horns if they are in good working condition. If you're buying a horn for your own enjoyment and not for specialized professional gigs then any of these horns will be fine (as long as the horn is in good working condition).

I've had no dealings with GamonBrass. I've seen some listings by them that seemed very high priced. Any of the horns you mentioned are available from sellers located in the United States. Personally, I wouldn't consider buying a horn from someone outside of the United States because the shipping issues are potentially far more complex to buy from someone outside the United States especially if something goes wrong and you need to return the horn.
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NYTrumpet2018
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you again for all the replies.

I think I may go with the Conn 38B that is advertised on here in the marketplace.

If anyone knows any reason they can see that it looks bad and it would not be a good buy please let me know.

Thanks.
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Mike Prestage
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome. I've just found two on the marketplace. IMO the one at $850 would be worth a shot if you really want a 38B and can't find one locally. I wouldn't touch the other one unless I could play test it or there was some serious flexibility on the price. The asking price is a scary amount for what could turn out to be a relacquered horn with worn valves.

Mike
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NYTrumpet2018
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you again...

It is not that I have my heart set on a 38B. I am looking for a pro level trumpet that isn't going to cost me an arm and a leg; I know that is asking for a lot. I am hoping to find something around 1,200 or less and that 38B looks ok...I don't know
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What horn are you using currently? And are there features or differences that you want to get?

It might be worthwhile to visit a music store that handles used instruments to try a variety. Call several stores to verify what they have available for testing, and do an easy day trip.

Jay
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Mike Prestage
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
What horn are you using currently? And are there features or differences that you want to get?

It might be worthwhile to visit a music store that handles used instruments to try a variety. Call several stores to verify what they have available for testing, and do an easy day trip.

Jay


+1

38Bs are very serious horns but they're pretty quirky and they're old enough for a lot of them to be played to death. Tbh there's no point messing about with horns like this if you don't have any particular preferences and just need a decent trumpet. Your budget is enough to buy a 'safe' used horn from a reputable dealer. It's also enough to give you a choice of budget professional horns, brand new. These will tend to be rather noticeably built down to a price but are certainly worth considering. If you go to a dealer who's generally trusted by the US trumpet community and also has a large used stock, you should be able to get pretty impartial advice on the pros and cons of budget new vs. a used, higher quality horn.

Mike
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Prestage wrote:
38Bs are very serious horns but they're pretty quirky and they're old enough for a lot of them to be played to death.


Not that I disagree with some of the observations or suggestions here, but I do want to point out that I got a Connstellation off of ebay at a very good price and it played well. Looked good too.

But maybe an added plus from the above is to combine your choice of a Conn with trying them out. If accessibility is a problem (like it is for me), pick a retailer who has a liberal return policy. If you buy from a private seller, make sure you are clear about the conditions and time limits on returning the horn - and get it in writing!
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If you haven't lived it, you can't blow it.

"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis." Chet Baker

Adams A1
Yamaha YTR-8310 Z, "Bobby Shew"
Martin Committee
Conn 80A, "New Wonder", Cornet
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Conn Connstellation 38B is a great horn. In fact, I played the exact same 1959 model. So did my teacher who studied with Schilke and played it as first trumpet in the Honolulu Symphony, too.

Here's a sampler with different styles by Don Jacoby, Have Conn Will Travel,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBXzw7Llhpk&t=1438s


Thanks for the Don Jacoby link. I know a few guys who studied with him. He was in a Navy band with Gozzo. There were so many great players from that era.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Jacoby and Conrad Gozzo in the same band?
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If you haven't lived it, you can't blow it.

"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis." Chet Baker

Adams A1
Yamaha YTR-8310 Z, "Bobby Shew"
Martin Committee
Conn 80A, "New Wonder", Cornet
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