• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Satin Finish



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
theslawdawg
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 843
Location: Waikiki, Hawaii

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject: Satin Finish Reply with quote

Aloha,

As I sit here suffering from 85 degree weather in Hawaii...had a quick trumpet question:

What is the long term wear that you can expect when you have a horn with a satin finish?

I'm familiar with the long term for silver, gold, and raw finishes but have no clue about a satin finish.

Thank you in advance.
_________________
My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
HERMOKIWI
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2578

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what the reasonable expectations are as to long term wear in a satin finish. My concern would be directed more to the restoration of the finish if the horn needs repair. I was considering a satin finish on a horn but my repair tech told me that if any repairs were needed for dings, dents, etc. it was very difficult if not impossible to match the satin finish after the ding/dent was removed. So I went with a polished finish instead.

I have a couple of vintage horns with satin finishes (a Conn 40B and a Conn 48B). Those horns do show wear to the satin finish pretty quickly if the finish comes in contact with something hard (such as a ring). The wear is in the nature of a brighter spot. A satin finish can be reapplied but it typically doesn't match the finish on the rest of the horn. It just sort of camouflages things.

It would be wise to think of a satin finish as being very fragile and very high maintenance compared to a polished finish.
_________________
HERMOKIWI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brad361
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once spoke to someone at Andersen about this, they pretty much confirmed what HERMOKIWI said above.

But that was actual gold, “satin finish” can also be lacquer. I once had Tom Green do this to a Strad, he stripped the existing lacquer, “scratched” the brass and relacquered. I was a bit concerned if this might change how the horn played/sounded, it did not. That finish was the same, regarding wear, upkeep, etc., as standard lacquer over polished brass. The appearance was similar to satin gold finish. Almost, anyway.

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12647
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The type of satin finish can make a difference. If the satin is all done in the lacquer then repairs can be problematic trying to match the finish. If done in the metal without lacquer there is the same issue. Both will be susceptible to wear.

If the satin is in the metal with lacquer over it my guess is that it should wear better.

If repairing I suspect the tech will refinish to the nearest joint, just as they do when repairing a fender on a car.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Brad361
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
The type of satin finish can make a difference. If the satin is all done in the lacquer then repairs can be problematic trying to match the finish. If done in the metal without lacquer there is the same issue. Both will be susceptible to wear.

If the satin is in the metal with lacquer over it my guess is that it should wear better.

If repairing I suspect the tech will refinish to the nearest joint, just as they do when repairing a fender on a car.


The horn I had done was what your second paragraph describes. IMO, wear is really the same in that case as any other lacquer over brass finish.

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12647
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad361 wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
The type of satin finish can make a difference. If the satin is all done in the lacquer then repairs can be problematic trying to match the finish. If done in the metal without lacquer there is the same issue. Both will be susceptible to wear.

If the satin is in the metal with lacquer over it my guess is that it should wear better.

If repairing I suspect the tech will refinish to the nearest joint, just as they do when repairing a fender on a car.


The horn I had done was what your second paragraph describes. IMO, wear is really the same in that case as any other lacquer over brass finish.

Brad

I wasn’t clear. What I meant to say was the lacquer over satin would wear better than satin lacquer. If the satin finish on metal causes raised points I could see the high spots wearing sooner.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
theslawdawg
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 843
Location: Waikiki, Hawaii

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the responses. Appreciate the points when it comes to repair work.

I'm gathering all things being equal, and the horn goes through normal wear and tear, and the user takes good care of it, the satin finish will just get dull over time.
_________________
My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
loweredsixth
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 1841
Location: Fresno, California, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want scratched brass with the lacquer applied on top like the gorgeous Carol Brass finish. That way it feels perfectly smooth, stays looking great, and wears just like any lacquer horn.
_________________
The name I go by in the real world is Joe Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12647
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theslawdawg wrote:
Thank you for the responses. Appreciate the points when it comes to repair work.

I'm gathering all things being equal, and the horn goes through normal wear and tear, and the user takes good care of it, the satin finish will just get dull over time.

I am guessing, but I suspect it will get shiny over time due to wear, not dull.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
HERMOKIWI
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2578

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will get shiny rather than dull. A Scotch Brite pad can be used to "restore" the satin finish but matching the original finish by this method is difficult even if you're careful and apply it lightly.

Satin finishes are beautiful when they're new but they're not very serviceable. It's just very difficult to maintain their original look when you play the horn with any frequency. Also, if the finish tarnishes it's more difficult to remove the tarnish and get the finish back to looking new compared to a high polished finish. My two satin finish silver plated trumpets (Conn 40B and Conn 48B) are the most difficult instruments in my collection to get looking like new when they're tarnished. They tend to come out "spotty" or "streaked." A satin finish under lacquer would probably be easier to maintain but there would still be the issue of matching the original finish after a repair.
_________________
HERMOKIWI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mafields627
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Nov 2001
Posts: 3774
Location: AL

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read on here that it can difficult to get tarnish off satin silver due to the lack of a smooth surface and, also, that polishing will remove the satin effect over time.
_________________
--Matt--

No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yourbrass
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 3619
Location: Pacifica, CA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two "satin" finishes that I know of: bead-blasting, which is how the old timers did it, and scratch brush, which is largely used today. I believe ASP does bead-blast finishes, but they don't recommend it on old horns. Reason being that an irregular surface allows dirt to get into the "pores" and it's tough to get it clean enough to replate.
-Lionel
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group