Unknown trumpet

cavaliercontroll · New Member Joined: 10 Dec 2019 Posts: 5

I have a trumpet that I can't find out what brand it is. the bell is too rusty to see the name and there is no other way to see the brand. can anyone identify this trumpet and where i can get valves for it?

thank you,

D.C.

shofarguy · Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Unknown trumpet

cavaliercontroll · New Member Joined: 10 Dec 2019 Posts: 5

I've looked it up but I can't find any models that look like mine, a lot of them have a water key on the 3rd valve tuning slide, or the tuning slide is on the opposite side.

Dale Proctor · Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject:

Some of the features look like Conn, but others don't.
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cavaliercontroll · New Member Joined: 10 Dec 2019 Posts: 5

so do you think its a Frankenstein's monster of all trumpets?

JetJaguar · Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:37 pm Post subject:

If you take a clear, well-focused closeup of the bell engraving, we might be able to decipher it. Or just wait long enough and someone will ID it with the picture you've given. Of note is the third valve crook is on the right instead of the left. That should narrow it down.
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Orban · Regular Member Joined: 18 Jun 2018 Posts: 66

Sometime you can fade out text make more clear with blackboard chalk.

Just try to help.

LittleRusty · Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:50 pm Post subject:

Or wrap it in paper and use the side of a pencil’s lead to make an impression.

harryjamesworstnightmare · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Posts: 167

Kieiwerth, Conn, Buescher, York and some stencil horns had this configuration. The only way to know for sure is the engraving on the bell. This is known as an airflow design and the key element is that all three valves are identical and interchangeable in their respective valve casings.
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Liberty Lips · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 979

Getting replacement valves for this trumpet would be nearly impossible. Having custom-made valves for it would cost far more than the trumpet could ever be worth.

Leeway · Veteran Member Joined: 06 Sep 2019 Posts: 141

LittleRusty · Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown trumpet

Mike Prestage · Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:24 pm Post subject:

The Harry Pedler trumpet shown here is a close match visually:

https://www.trumpet-history.com/The%20Harry%20Pedler%20Companies.htm

As said above, there's no realistic possibility of getting this horn playing again if you want the costs to be proportionate to its market value at the end. If it has particular significance to you (e.g. it belonged to a relative) then you do have options for replacing the valves. It will be expensive if you want the horn to end up fully playable, but potentially a lot cheaper if you'd be happy with it just looking complete for display purposes.

Mike

Liberty Lips · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 979

lipshurt · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:27 am Post subject:

Looks like valve block is conn 4a small Bore Wonder cornet valve section. That’s if the view is 438. If the bore is 458 It’s another conn corner second generation bottom sprung cornet block. Not a trumpet block. Conn cornet
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VetPsychWars · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:58 pm Post subject:

Almost certainly an Elkart "Built by Buescher".

A trumpet valve block, with due respect to Doug. It is basically a Model 205 Aristocrat with some off-the-shelf parts instead of what would have came with an Aristocrat.

Tom
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thomasmarriott · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:18 pm Post subject:

My dad had a Harry Pedler trumpet that looked just like that. I think they were Conn stencils and if memory serves it had bottom sprung valves. Could this be the issue? If the pistons are there, you might only need small parts to get it working. This horn also had an odd sized reciever.
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Acludwig1 · Regular Member Joined: 16 Jul 2017 Posts: 45 Location: USA

The receiver almost looks Holton to me but not quite the same.

Mike Prestage · Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:58 pm Post subject:

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

Mike is correct. That is a Harry Pedler American Triumph made by ART Manufacturing, the second foray into instrument making for both partners Harry Pedler and Gus Buescher.

Pedler was recruited to work for Conn by Wm Gronert in 1905. When Gronert left Conn, he took Pedler with him and they established the first Pedler company. After Gronert died, having transferred his holdings to Martin when he assumed the #2 role there in 1916, his share in the company passed to Martin's owner Oliver Basset, who later removed Pedler and his son from the company that carried their name. They united with Gus Buescher, who had likewise been pushed out of his company by AH Beardslee to whom he had sold it (and who then put it as a subsidiary of the student brand Elkhart, ruining its marketability), and established ART Manufacturing to build Conn-style instruments in the Pedler tradition in direct competition with Elkhart and Pedler.

It looks like all 3 pistons are there. The only challenge I see is finding the rather unique caps. Other than that, a good tech with an old shop should be able to get it running again. Should you, however, is another question given that it is a second tier horn from another time.
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