Good match for Selmer piccolo with Blackburn leadpipe

jaquesmetz · Regular Member Joined: 15 Jul 2011 Posts: 39

Hi!

I own an old Selmer piccolo (circa 1980) 4 valve piccolo, rose brass bell. Beautiful sound, but the intonation is kinda odd.

With a blackburn P2 leadpipe the intonation is better, but I'm not finding a mouthpiece that balances well with the piccolo small bore.

Tried the Pickett PS1 backbore, but the short shank makes the high register very sharp.

Any suggestions? On the big horns I use a GR 3MX.
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Bb: Yamaha Chicago 9335 1st Gen
C: Yamaha 6445 HG II
Piccolo: Selmer 360B
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giakara · Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:05 pm Post subject:

I have a older 3 valve Selmer piccolo, probably made in mid 60's and I had the same problem for many years but recently I found that the stock mpc that comes with the horn (a Selmer 4 special with flat wide rim and double cup) works better than any other mouthpiece I have try.
In all my other horns I use Reeves and Purviance mpcs but for this little guy they did work well.

Regards
_________________
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Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs

bagmangood · Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:22 pm Post subject:

Probably the best intonation I found was from a stork 4C with the C backbore and a 25 throat. Not light enough for a piccolo sound, so switched to an ACB 7PT.

Your mileage will vary

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Voltrane · Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:51 pm Post subject:

With my 4 valves Selmer piccolo (1981) with a Blackburn leadpipe, the best result for me is the Stork Vacchiano piccolo mouthpiece.

tptguy · Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:26 pm Post subject:

Very pleased with Callet SC3s with my Selmer pic. I think Kenny Robinson is using the same with his Selmer.

jaquesmetz · Regular Member Joined: 15 Jul 2011 Posts: 39

Thanks for the replies.

I'm testing a Yamaha 11B4 right now, and the results are satisfactory: good sound, good intonation. The resistance is a bit more that I'm used to, but is manageable.

About the Stork piccolo mouthpiece, what size do you think? The GR 3MX has a .660" (16.76mm) diameter, going much smaller than .630" (16.00mm) can be a too drastic size change.
_________________
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Bb: Yamaha Chicago 9335 1st Gen
C: Yamaha 6445 HG II
Piccolo: Selmer 360B
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bunny · Veteran Member Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 230

The Stork Vacchiano worked for me on a very old 3 valve, an early 70's 4 valve. Now I have a model 365- a very different horn but retaining much of the Selmer sound. The Stork is good on it also. I think all (but am not totally sure) Selmers take a standard trumpet shank.
Have always preferred the short model sound.

Voltrane · Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:43 am Post subject:

I use a Stork Vacchiano 3P. 16,5mm. Not far from a Yamaha 11b.
You gave me an idea: I will try a Yamaha 11b.

zaferis · Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:57 am Post subject:

I've had pretty good success with Curry's 3DE, which is the trumpet shank version of his 3P picc. mouthpiece (cornet shank).

Used it with my old Selmer with Blackburn pipes... I finally broke down and bought a different picc. Loved the sound of the Selmer but found that there are easier piccolos to play.
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Voltrane · Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:37 am Post subject:

I shortly tested my Yamaha 11B4 GP vs my Stork 3 P... mainly with my muted pic because it is now too late in Paris to play open. So the test is what it is.
The Stork feels wider but both mp fit well with the horn: open blowing, no special intonation flaws, good sound when I briefly tried without the mute.
I will play more seriously when I have the opportunity but the 11B4 seems a good option, at least for me.

cheiden · Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:26 am Post subject:

A cornet shank Yamaha 11B4 is the best I've found for my Kanstul 920. I'm one of those players that just can't play any of the shallower pieces I've tried.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

Riojazz · Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:42 am Post subject:

I can't comment on these brands, but you also asked about size. I have tried a smaller diameter mouthpiece on my Schilke P5-4 (with Blackburn trumpet A pipe) and decided I cannot play on the smaller diameter some recommend. In my case I play GR66MS but tried a 64; I could not adapt and just use the 66MS.
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Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D.

markolen · New Member Joined: 04 Dec 2019 Posts: 5

a bach 7E works well

JoseLindE4 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791

I play a 1980ish 4-valve Selmer with stock leadpipes and a stock Bach 7E. I don't have any major problems playing it in tune or even really need to revert to any alternate fingerings on the A side. Sometimes I'll use the 4th valve for the concert D above the staff (F on A piccolo) depending on the context, but that's it. Keep it light, hear the note, and play the note. For me at least, simpler is better. I've pretty much used the same piccolo mouthpiece my entire piccolo life.

The Bb side is a bit more work to play in tune, but I play in A a lot more, so that might have something to do with it.

rmch · Regular Member Joined: 20 Sep 2012 Posts: 94

I've had a similar experience. I have a 4-valve Selmer from the mid-70's with original A and Bb pipes. My go-to mouthpiece for almost everything is a Reeves 42SV692sL (I know, it's a "commercial/bright" piece, but I started using it for everything a few years ago because it's so efficient and I keep on finding more tonal possibilities in it with each passing year - I even use it in smaller legit settings (e.g. church gigs) and have a lot of fun with it) and it always worked okay on the A pipe, but with the Bb pipe, things were hard. Intonation was much trickier and the tone sounded thin and nasal, while the A pipe sounded rich. A couple years ago, I picked up a Reeves 42SPT thinking "well, it's designed for picc, so maybe this will help." Instead, sound and intonation got worse (mainly, way too sharp) on both pipes.

Over the past year, I've practiced a lot more on the Bb pipe with my 42SV692sL and I think I just got used to the way it plays - intonation has improved and my sound has become much more enjoyable. So maybe all I needed to do in the first place was keep practicing....?

A question for you all: conventional wisdom as I've understood it from informed sources (Jack Burt and Dave Hickman come to mind at the moment) states that most players will have a more enjoyable time playing picc on a mouthpiece that is at least a little bit shallower than their go-to classical mouthpiece, maybe even with a smaller rim ID. In what ways other than cup depth do most successful picc pieces differ from "standard" mouthpieces? Are there any general trends regarding throat, bore, or backbore shapes and sizes between manufacturers that seem to work for most people (e.g. a tighter bore to help compress the air a little extra for the upper register, a more open backbore to compensate for the high resistance of the smaller horn, etc)? Reeves picc pieces have shorter shanks than his normal trumpet pieces (although they're still designed for piccs with a trumpet receiver instead of a cornet receiver), but in my case, I just sounded way too sharp with that mouthpiece in my horn to use on any gig. What is Reeves' logic here? Do any other manufactures do this kind of thing?

Thank you all very much for you help!
_________________
1919 King Liberty
1923 Conn 22B
1955 Selmer 24A (Balanced Action)
1981 LA Benge ML #3 bell
1938 Couesnon Flugel
1907 HN White Co. "King" Cornet
1977 Selmer Picc

giakara · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:38 am Post subject:

I use exclusive Reeves mouthpieces in all my horns and I had similar expiriance I start to use a 43ES and a P10 with good good results but I was not 100% happy so I got a 43ES PT but the things wasn't as expected, very sharp tone a some kind of unstable, I returned to P10 and recedly I have try the stock mpc that comes withe the horn a Selmer 4 special, very big mpc with a wide flat rim and a shallow double cup and PADAM everything was just perfect ,intonation, sound even my endurance (I am sure that the Wide flat rim helps to that) , I don't now any other specifications for this piece but it works better than any other piece I try.

Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs

Anonie · Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:21 pm Post subject:

I have a 4-valve Selmer from the late 1960s with Blackburn leadpipes.

I have found that a stork 7P works very well.