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When to do Caruso?


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trumpetmandan
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:48 am    Post subject: When to do Caruso? Reply with quote

I'm wondering, when during the day do most of you practice Caruso? Is it the first thing you do to set yourself up for the day, at the end, somewhere in the middle, doesn't matter as long as you get it done, etc.

I've practiced Caruso on and off for a few years with some success, but I still find the exercises to be very taxing. For this reason I've gravitated towards ending my day with Caruso, so I don't tire myself out before any other playing I need to do that day. Just wondering what your thoughts/experiences are.
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maynard-46
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:36 am    Post subject: When to do Caruso Reply with quote

I imagine all of us are different regarding our practice routine...what works for one person doesn't work for another! That being said...I studied with Carmine for about 5 1/2 years. FOR ME...I usually warmup for 10-15 minutes, or so, then do my Caruso stuff. Yes...even after doing them for 50 years they're STILL taxing ...BUT...I always feel MUCH better after doing them...my chops aren't tired, etc. The one thing I would NEVER do is to do them at the END of my 2 hour practice session!!! THAT would be a waste of time as at that point my chops would be too tired! Until you get stronger on his exercises: find a spot in ur routine where ur still at least 1/2 way fresh and maybe try doing them at a mf level and not pushing the exercises to the very extreme. As u get stonger THEN u can change how/where you do them. Just a thought!! Good luck with them!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to either do them first thing in the day or first thing in my evening practice session. The one thing I would never do is do them at the end. Carmine said to never do them when your chops are tired.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a relevant side note, I have been practicing CC calisthenics for more that 40 years and have used them with dozens of students. I have never seen, in real life, the kind of debilitating fatigue that I hear people on the internet talking about. Ever.

1) Are you doing them with the proper approach? Check out the Getting Started threads again.

2) How much CC are you doing compared to other kinds of practice and playing? I mean, when you first start doing CC calisthenics it is only adding about 10-15 minutes of playing a day to your regular existing practice routines, and the daily amount of calisthenics played increase VERY gradually as you progress. CC practice should never be more than 1/2 of your daily practice, generally more like 10-15%.

3) Are you moving from one assignment to the next one too rapidly? I know that in the Getting Started threads Charly uses the term "Week One," "Week Two," etc. But, really there is no hurry. When I was studying with Carmine I would often go a month or more between lessons and I would continue to practice the same assignment until I saw him again. This was never a problem. They still helped me. I would actually recommend going through the schedule laid out in Getting Started more gradually, spending 2-4 weeks on each lesson AT MINIMUM before changing your daily routine.

Seriously, if you can tell me that you are following all of this advice and you still find the exercises crippling, I want to know.

Read all the Getting Started threads in order before answering, and if you did not approach the calisthenics the way the thread suggests I recommend starting over with lesson one and trying again, following the rules this time.
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trumpetmandan
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for your replies so far, lots of good food for thought here! I assure you I've read the Getting Started threads thoroughly, more than once.

I think it's important to clarify that I do not experience "debilitating fatigue" when practicing Caruso, nor do I find the exercises "crippling". However, I do contend that 10-15 min of Caruso drills are a more taxing 10-15 min than the same amount of time spent on Clarke, Arban, Schlossberg, etc.

In general, Caruso comprises less than %10 of my daily practice - 10-15 min or less. I only move on until I feel very comfortable with what I am already doing. I'm confident that I'm following a healthy approach and not putting my chops at risk.

Lately, I've been thinking about a more efficient way to structure my practice time, which is why I posted the initial question. The goal is to stay as fresh as possible throughout the day so I maximize the effectiveness of everything that I'm doing. From the responses so far, it sounds like it might be a good idea to try Caruso at the end of my first session of the day. At that point I'll be warmed up, and it allows for a rest period before playing anything else. It also seems, so far, that playing Caruso at the end of the day (as I've been doing) is not what's recommended.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been doing it for about three years

lately i have been doing the dominic derasse caruso and beyond video course, and i am on week 9, and pretty much have stayed on week nine four about 5 months now. I like week nine, and it does not wear me out, but i did the first nine weeks as prescribed. It takes about 30 minutes or less. Most of it is soft playing, but the ones with crescendos are taxng but not not the kind of taxing that keeps you tired the rest of the day. It does not beat up your chops really.
It works really well for me i know that
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pepperdean
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Pat. I've been doing the calisthenics since I first went to Carmine in the 1968-69 time period. Over the years, I've used these exercises with many students of all ages and skill levels. They have never done anything but improved playing without significant fatigue. I firmly believe, if done correctly, that Carmine was correct, it's a 'no-fail' system. I speculate the thing that allows it to be very taxing without being a detriment is the long-setting approach. Keeping a stable base keeps the rigors of the routine from tearing down the endurance. Heck, I start my day with it because I feel it sets me up properly, even if I have an early morning gig.

Alan
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took lessons from a teacher in the Caruso/Frink lineage. I know that Caruso didn't work for me one bit - actually messed me up for a while until I went back to my old routine.

I know that those it does work for have tremendous results! But if after a while it's not working, and leaving your chops busted, it just might not be for you.

I certainly don't mean to badmouth a method that I know is very successful for so many people. But for me it was not a good fit, despite qualified instruction.

Just my thoughts, personal experience, etc.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Caruso has worked wonderfully for me! Reply with quote

When you don't practice the exercises correctly you end up with busted chops. I have personally only improved after I begun doing his exercises. I started doing only the first lesson, the six notes, for like a month... and then I moved on to doing the articulation exercise also, and I'm actually working on the first two exercises of intervals, the seconds and thirds, one day seconds and the next thirds.

I do the six notes and then rest 5 minutes, then the interval for the day, then 5 minute rest and then the six notes again. That's all I've been working and in 4 months of doing it every day, I can now play up to a high F6, sometimes up to a C7.
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humor
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just started playing a challenging new show, and am finding that Caruso before bedtime and in the morning is putting me in a good place.

Note that I’ve studied Caruso extensively with Laurie Frink, John McNeil, Dominic Derasse...and am, in fact, sitting next to him on this show.
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gstump
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FIRST
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, it's critical to take lessons from someone who understands this approach thoroughly and continue under their guidance as you progress. Regular corrections prevent us from getting off track. I know that when I first started doing the intervals, my expectations were not in line with that of the method. I thought that I would be able to play through my entire range on the first go and I beat myself up doing it. Also, when I voiced my concerns to my teacher, he showed me a variation that was harder but less taxing.
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gstump
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no question that doing anything including but not limited to Caruso Intervals as far or as much as you can will hit a wall. The thing I really love about Caruso is doing the first setting, crashing and burning, waiting 15 seconds and trying to go ahead. For me, 9 times out of 10 I am fully recovered after 15 seconds and can go on to 1 or maybe 2 more steps in the second setting. Somehow everything is set up in the face and breathing system to do that. For 2nds Regular, depending on your range and strength that takes....wait for it.......2 to 3 minutes. For beginners in the Caruso method the 6 notes, the harmonics and 1 regular interval is enough.

So maybe 6 minutes. I think of the Caruso Method as medicine. Powerful medicine. If the doctor prescribes 1 pill every 24 hours, are you taking 4 pills? Yea, that could be a bad thing.
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the medicine analogy.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carmine used the analogy of one aspirin being good for you when a bottle of aspirin could kill you.

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chrisrice67
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use caruso as a relaxation tool. when my sound is not centered of focus. I use caruso and think about how i am breathing
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisrice67 wrote:
I use caruso as a relaxation tool. when my sound is not centered of focus. I use caruso and think about how i am breathing


That is pretty much the antithesis of what I was taught about Caruso.
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TrpPro
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisrice67 wrote:
I use caruso as a relaxation tool. when my sound is not centered of focus. I use caruso and think about how i am breathing

Don't think.

To the OP. The best time to do Caruso, when they will do the most good, is first thing when the muscles are the most rested. If you have a busy day of playing coming up maybe just do The Six Notes and 2nds for that day. So, yes, it is ok to take a day off.
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert but what's currently working for me is to do a few minutes on the leadpipe as a warmup just to get the air moving and the blood flowing. Then I do Caruso. The earlier in the day this routine occurs, the easier my practice is and the better my music is. Earl Irons said to do long tones before breakfast. So, yeah, the earlier the better, I think.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:41 am    Post subject: Caruso method and physical issues Reply with quote

An interesting short view of Caruso approach to teaching -

https://www.hornsociety.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1434:carmine-caruso-and-the-caruso-method&catid=295

Jay
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