Preventing Buildup in Leadpipe

[Phoenix864]

Hi all,

With every trumpet I've owned, after a few months of playing I always seem to end up with residue lining the leadpipe. Despite thoroughly cleaning my teeth before playing and giving the horn baths every 6 weeks, I always end up with this residue that I can't seem to get off at home. I've tired the Reka sponge brushes, I've tried regular bristle brushes - regardless of what I use it remains. Chem/ultrasonic cleanings take it right off, but after a few months it comes right back.

I haven't been able to tell the color of it due to the lack of light in the leadpipe, but it appears as small spots/flecks that appear inside the leadpipe.

As I've just started fresh on a new horn, I was wondering if

A) Anyone might know what this is. And

B) if anyone knows how to keep it from building up.

Or is it just normal to see some stuff like this accumulate on the leadpipe over time?

As an aside, if anyone has any tips for getting a new trumpet setup (besides giving it a good bath) I'm all ears.



Thanks.

[Irving]

To clean your leadpipe use a brass wire brush. Not steel. To prevent buildup, swab out the leadpipe after each playing session. If you do this, you will prevent buildup and avoid red rot.

[Usedtobegood]

I highly recommend these leadpipe swabs that Tim Wendt sells. I have one in each case that I use and never have a buildup problem.


https://www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=119230&s=The-Best-Damn-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-Period-

[mdarnton]

Also noticing your post about your Bach 190 finish issues, I am going to bet that you are male, under 30. I am a violin maker/restorer. It's very common for young men to have corrosive skin and breath, and I regularly have problems with them melting the varnish off violins both by touch and where their breath falls. This tendency goes away around 30, so I am guessing that it's a temporary hormonal thing.

I've been following brass rotting threads here since I joined on, and think I see the same problem with brass instruments. In the shop, with co-workers we've noticed that some people's brass planes get shinier with use where their fingers touch, and for some the brass rots right out where they touch, turning rough and green/grey-brown, and I have seen the same thing on some trumpets for sale on ebay, etc. One of my coworkers with this problem had to wear cotton gloves while working, or with time black fingerprints would develop where he had touched wood! All of this is similar to what happens when nitric acid touches wood or brass.

If this all sounds familiar, I think you may be stuck with the problem for a while. Perhaps some brass person could suggest something to rinse your horn with after use, both inside and where you touch--something that would chemically neutralize what you are depositing without harming the metal. Without more knowledge of chemistry, I"m reluctant to make a suggestion. Perhaps even a thorough rinse with water after playing would help.

[TrumpetMD]

Good advice already given ... swab out your lead pipe daily.

Dirt enters your horn from 2 places ... the lead pipe and the valves. Every day,
I swab out my lead pipe and tuning slide. And once a week, I use a microfiber cloth to wipe down my valves, valve casings, and vents, and then blow a couple spit balls through the horn and brush out my mouthpiece.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.

[OldSchoolEuph]

Phoenix864 Please tell me that photo is not your new horn. Once again the patina to the plating is excessive. The plating has been rubbed completely away on the leading edge of the rear bell brace escutcheon on the bell. The only way I know to do that is excessive polishing with an abrasive material (since there is no reason for contact there).

There has to be an explanation behind all of the difficulties you are having, but I am at a loss to figure what.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[mdarnton]

Continuing what I was on before, I just discovered that there's another brass disease caused by salt, which makes me curious about your salt intake, via prepared foods and snacks.

If I'm on the right line here, it becomes increasingly obvious that just taking a swab and spreading the problem around, accumulating it in the swab and spreading it all over, is NOT the solution, and that a water rinse or something similar looks better and better.

[JayKosta]

I use a flexible plastic rod bought from a fabric store - it is used to install draw strings in pants.
I use it as a 'cleaning rod' and pull small cotton cloth patches thru the leadpipe.
I use a Q-tip every day to clean the mpc.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[TrumpetMD]

[mdarnton]

Jay, thanks!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QSTKDXD
This one is long enough to reach down the bell most of the way to the first valve

TrumpetMD: take a bath in mud, push it around, end up covered with mud. I'm still going to say the problem needs to be removed, not redistributed.

[Irving]

By swabbing out the leadpipe you are drying it. If you have saliva that is corrosive ( a theory I have is that if you get nervous while playing, then the saliva gets even more corrosive. This theory is unproven.), and not everybody does, then that is what will ruin your leadpipe. Dry it out after every playing session, and you won't have any problems.

[TrumpetMD]

[PH]

If you play your horn most every day, 5 weeks is way too long to go between cleanings. I flush my horn with water, snake out the leadpipe and slides, and use Herco spitballs AT LEAST weekly.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com

[Don Herman rev2]

[Turkle]

[pinstriper]

I don't frequently swab my leadpipes, not having perceived any buildup or damage. I do give my "daily" player a bath every other month or so.

For the leadpipe I take a pistol cleaning rod, run a .45 cal brush through and back one time, then 20 bore shotgun cleaning cotton patches, which are generally clean after the 3rd or 4th patch. I suppose one could also run an oiled patch through one last time, come to think of it just like cleaning a gun but with valve oil, not a gun oil. The use of the patches to dry the leadpipe, followed by one pass with a valve oil soaked patch before putting away might be a helpful daily or weekly routine.

I would ABSOLUTELY NOT use the same rod or brushes as my firearms as they will have traces of gun solvent which is excellent at eating brass and copper deposits left in a gun barrel and would be hell on a trumpet.
_________________
~'77 DEG Dynasty II Soprano Bugle in G
'13 Chinese POS "Hawk" branded Flugel
'59 Olds Ambassador Cornet
'51 Olds Super
'69 Olds Studio
'40 Olds Special Cornet, Military Issued

[Phoenix864]

Lots of good info here, thanks for all the responses. It sounds like regular leadpipe swabbing is a good idea. I've always been worried about stressing the horn when pulling a swab through the leadpipe and the main tuning slide with only the top leg inserted, but it seems like it should be a non-issue. The "Best Damn Trumpet Lead Pipe Swab" looks great, I probably should get one.

JayKosta - I would guess you use a similar technique to the "Best Damn Trumpet Lead Pipe Swab"? Ie insert tuning slide with the bottom leg flipped up and pull the rod through the slide and leadpipe?

mdarnton - Yes, that criteria does fit me. That said, I'm not 100% sure I'm all that acidic. I played a Schagerl TR600S for years with no plating damage, or other acid related wear. Whatever this buildup is it doesn't really leave any lasting marks. I had the Schagerl ultrasonically cleaned twice during the time I played it. Each time, the leadpipe came back looking like new. I don't really eat many processed foods. Most of my diet consists of basic vegetable meals made from scratch, so I don't think my salt intake is very high.

OldSchoolEuph - No, that photo is of my old Bach right after a cleaning. The new horn doesn't have much of a patina, but it does seem to have that 'scratch' silver finish you mentioned was unusual on the Bach. I have no idea how or why it develops, I've barely had the horn for a few days and even cleaned it yet.



It sounds like I could also use to figure out an updated cleaning schedule. I play about 1.5-3 hours every day, so my horn sees a fair bit of use. From what I've gathered, it sounds like I should:

Swab leadpipe daily.
Give it a full bath more often (maybe every 4 weeks?)
Wipe down valves/valve casings once a week? Seems to be especially recommended for new horns. I'm a little conflicted on this one. I am a bit worried about introducing some contaminants to the valves/casings during the process. Maybe rinsing out the valves and casings with water might be a possible alternative?
Flush entire horn with water? Seems like another option for removing debris from valve casing plus other spots.

pinstriper - it doesn't look like that kind of brush could make it around the bend in the tuning slide. Do you just use it to swab out the leadpipe without the tuning slide inserted?

Last thing - not related to the leadpipe, but I noticed that there seems to be some kind of grease on the valve springs. I normally fully disassemble the valves when cleaning (leaving the stems, felts, and springs out of the water), but I'm wondering if I should also remove this grease off the springs.

[JayKosta]

[pinstriper]

[Phoenix864]

Thanks for the clarification - do either of you run into issues with spreading the residual grease from the tuning slide through the leadpipe? I know that others leave the top leg of the slide inserted to prevent the swap from contacting any grease.