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Marcinkiewicz Flugelhorn


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L C
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Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:21 pm    Post subject: Marcinkiewicz Flugelhorn Reply with quote

Does anyone have any experience playing a Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel?

It's hard to locate one. I've heard recordings and really dig the sound.

Thanks.
LC


Last edited by L C on Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Rembrandt model was technically a trumpet, although they did offer it in
Quarter tone and Extended range similar to the flugel line.
The only one I tried was the Mic Gillette model, very nice but I prefer the
Vermeer trumpet.
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JVL
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello,
at one time, Bill Ortiz (TH member) played Marc. horns
best
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steevo
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamahaguy wrote:
The Rembrandt model was technically a trumpet, although they did offer it in
Quarter tone and Extended range similar to the flugel line.
The only one I tried was the Mic Gillette model, very nice but I prefer the
Vermeer trumpet.


While there are Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt model trumpets, they also offer(ed) a Rembrandt flugelhorn. Not a trumpet.

From marcinkiewicz.com

"A departure from the classic flugelhorn, the Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt Flugel is one of Joe's greatest achievements. A .459" bore instrument, this flugelhorn has an incredibly dark, warm sound so long sought after. The horn's most distinctive feature is its red brass, 6-1/2" shepard's crook bell. Complimenting this is another one of the horn's unique designs in a shepard crook tuning slide. Using a slide for tuning vs the lead pipe allows for more even and consistent intonation. This revolutionary instrument truly reinvents the flugelhorn."
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1B
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own one. It’s stunning in both appearance and in sound. The nicest flugel I’ve ever played. Impeccable intonation. Easy to play throughout the range of the horn. As stated by the previous poster, the bore is on the larger side at .459. Big sound! I’m fortunate to have it, since Joe stopped making horns.
Jaimie Hall
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L C
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-- Yamahaguy, JVL

Thanks for your responses.

LC
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L C
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-- 1B

Thanks for the feedback Jaimie.

A couple of follow ups:
1. What finish is your horn?
2. Have you tried any of the other finishes?
3. Mouthpiece considerations (including shank type)?
4. Have you played any Van Laar flugels? If so, comparative thoughts?

Have you run across any sellers?

Thanks!

LC
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dershem
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Rembrandt flugel. Love it. Extraordinarily nimble, great sound, excellent intonation (it has a tuning slide!). It was originally a raw brass horn, but the guy I got it from had light lacquer done. The only other one I'd played was Mic's, which was silver with gold highlights, and that was what convinced me to get one of my own if I could. Never played the vanLaar, though I've heard good things about it.
Now I'm after the Rembrandt trumpet - all I need is to find one, and then get a boatload of money.
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BKA! Mic Gillette was my model, mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt 4X trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc.
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marcinkiewicz mouthpieces.
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L C
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-- dersham

Thanks for the valuable feedback.

How does your brass/lacquer horn compare in sound to Mic's silver? I would guess there are noticeable differences.

I've come across Rembrandt trumpets out there, even new ones in Europe and Japan I recall seeing at dealers. No flugels, though.

Best,

LC
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a Rembrandt trumpet on ebay right now, can't seem to copy the link but if you do a google search it will pop up. Says it's located in North Hollywood.
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dershem
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

L C wrote:
-- dersham

Thanks for the valuable feedback.

How does your brass/lacquer horn compare in sound to Mic's silver? I would guess there are noticeable differences.

I've come across Rembrandt trumpets out there, even new ones in Europe and Japan I recall seeing at dealers. No flugels, though.

Best,

LC


The difference in sound is really not very striking. Most of the differences was ... well, I keep mine cleaner than Mic kept his. Joe's design affects the sound a lot more than the materials.
My primary backup flugel is a Cousenon, and I think the Marc has a more ... consistent sound. Remember Schilke's experiments with bell materials, and his conclusion that material is not a primary driver? It's like that.
_________________
BKA! Mic Gillette was my model, mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt 4X trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc.
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marcinkiewicz mouthpieces.
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L C
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-- dersham

Very helpful. Thanks.

Best,

LC
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khedger
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Marcinkiewicz Flugelhorn Reply with quote

L C wrote:
Does anyone have any experience playing a Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel?

It's hard to locate one. I've heard recordings and really dig the sound.

Thanks.
LC


There was a TrumpetHerald member who used to post quite regularly. She played one of the Marcinkiewicz horns and loved them. I can't remember her name (I think she was in the Navy band), but there are probably some old posts around.

keith
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L C
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-- khedger

Thanks Keith.

LC
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see that The Trumpet Shop claims to have a new one in stock for $5280...

http://www.thetrumpetshop.com/Marcinkiewicz.html#anchor_510

They don't have a physical location listed on their Contact page, but their phone number is a 201 area code, which is in New Jersey, in case you can set up a time to play test one, maybe? I bought a used one from ACB in the summer of 2017 and had it for a very short period of time, but I found the blow constricting. Over time I think I could have adjusted to the blow, but I was able to sell it on eBay to a doctor in Singapore and actually come out a little in the black on that one. (He just had to have that flugel after seeing the triple Shepherds crook design!, which I agree is totally cool!) They are fairly pricey, when you find them. I just liked looking at them on their website. For those that don't know, Marcinkiewicz is not making horns at this time...only mouthpieces...in case you start drooling over the pics on their site of their beautifully sculpted horns with in-house gold and silver plating!

https://www.marcinkiewicz.com/instruments/
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L C
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-- dstpt

Thanks for your response. I contacted the Trumpet Shop. The horn is already sold (Charlie just hasn't updated his site).

You mentioned your Rembrandt was restrictive. Can you compare that to another manufacturer's flugel you have played?

I currently have an older Courtois. It's a decent all-around horn. Before that, I had a Couesnon with a two-piece bell. The Couesnon was more 'alive' and had a more unique sound. The intonation was pretty horrible, though. The Courtois is more like a mellow trumpet with okay intonation. It is definitely more restrictive to play than the Couesnon that was really open, but it isn't in anyway a problem.

I'm looking for a new horn with a richer sound and better intonation. Right now, it appears that a Van Laar is my best bet.

Again, I appreciate the feedback.

LC


Last edited by L C on Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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dershem
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My previous flugel is an old Cousenon, and I don't find the Rembrandt to be any tighter. Different in a couple of hard to describe ways (the valves are much closer to the face, which changes the feel of the horn), but... I personally don't find it restrictive.
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BKA! Mic Gillette was my model, mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt 4X trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc.
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marcinkiewicz mouthpieces.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

L C wrote:
-- dstpt

Thanks for your response. I contacted the Trumpet Shop. The horn is already sold (Charlie just hasn't updated his site).

You mentioned your Rembrandt was restrictive. Can you compare that to another manufacturer's flugel you have played?

I currently have an older Courtois. It's a decent all-around horn. Before that, I had a Couesnon with a two-piece bell. The Couesnon was more 'alive' and had a more unique sound. The intonation was pretty horrible, though. The Courtois is more like a mellow trumpet with okay intonation. It is definitely more restrictive to play than the Couesnon that was really open, but it isn't in anyway a problem.

I'm looking for a new horn with a richer sound and better intonation. Right now, it's looking for a Van Laar is my best bet.

Again, I appreciate the feedback.

LC

It makes sense that the Marcinkiewicz flugel had already sold, since it’s been 2016 when the company stopped making horns, I believe.

The Rembrandt flugel I had was silver plated with only one previous owner and was in basically pristine condition. I think the Marcinkiewicz horn designs were ultra cool, and I still like going to their website just to look at the pictures, especially the triple Shepherd’s crook design and the matte finished gold plated horns! Just scrumptious! It’s also cool to know that they did all of their gold and silver plating in house! Anyway, I think it’s sad when a company/builder stops making horns, like Roy Lawler moving on to just making trombones and Cliff Blackburn retiring. Note that all three of these–Lawler, Blackburn, and Marcinkiewicz–ceased with their respective horn productions in 2016 (or thereabouts).

I had played a Yamaha 631 for many years, and then moved to a Getzen 4v Eterna for about five years. I enjoyed playing both horns and adapted to their respective blows fairly easily. I experienced issues with intonation on the Getzen and eventually moved on to a horn safari in which I still consider myself. The Marcinkiewicz just seemed to be more restrictive, but I know that some players really prefer this kind of resistance in a flugel.

I had been accustomed to the blow on the Getzen, when I got the Marcinkiewicz, and even though they both have a similar bore size (.460 Getzen, .459 Marcinkiewicz), I’m pretty sure the leadpipes are different, but I don’t have those specs. I would guess that the Marcinkiewicz is smaller, but maybe someone else can confirm one way or another. However, knowing that the Marcinkiewicz is no longer available, and that you haven’t mentioned Yamaha up to this point, we will move on to others that may get you closer to your ideal.

I got a used Couesnon from a collector about a year ago, knowing that the valves needed rebuilding. Playing it was ridiculous! There was no discernible scale! I would attempt a basic C major scale on the horn, and midway, the horn would switch to a different pitch level, and then back as I got to the top! Well, at least the collector who sold it to me was up front about the issue and took that into account in the pricing. That horn is being overhauled at this time and should be completed in the next two weeks. Maybe that was the problem with the one you had. Many jazz and commercial players have definitively told me that the Couesnon sound is the “standard” and “ideal” flugel sound for them. If this horn comes out really sounding and playing great (for me), then I may keep it…but we can’t keep everything, right?! Ugh, I wish. We’ll see.

At ITG 2018 in San Antonio, I spent 2.5 hours in the Van Laar room, playing the various flugel models on display. I think there may have been 10-12 of Hub's flugels on a long table. I had two other trumpet friends periodically listening and giving me feedback. The final choice was the Oiram Fresu model. It hit all of the right buttons for me…sound, intonation low/middle/high, response, ease in the blow. The sound is (was) on the richer, darker side to my ears. I did not buy at that time but went a custom route for a 3+1, and that horn is being refinished at this time and should be back home in a few weeks.

At TMEA 2020 in San Antonio (three weeks ago), I got reacquainted with the Adams F2, which has a larger bell and deeper sound, so I’m told and to which I agree. I had played one before and am still considering an Adams F2 as a backup to my custom 3+1, but I’ll consider that after I get the Couesnon back to see if it will be my backup. My aim is to have a backup for every primary horn in my arsenal, including Bb, C, D, Eb, A/Bb picc, flugel, but I don’t plan to have a backup for the horns that I don’t play that frequently: cornet, E/F/G trumpet, and herald trumpet.

So right now, my choice for a flugelhorn backup would be my Couesnon undergoing rehab, an Adams F2, or a Van Laar Fresu. Oh, and in all fairness to our friend Leigh McKinney at Eclipse Trumpets, I would need to play one his flugels to throw in for consideration.
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L C
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-- dirshem

Thanks for the feedback.

LC
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L C
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-- dstpt

I appreciate the detailed response and your insights.

The Fresu, from what others have told me, has a wonderful, rich sound. The difficulty with the Van Laars is getting my hands on one to play!

Good luck with the Couesnon. Hopefully, the intonation will turn out better after the repairs, though I have never come anyone with a well in-tune Couesnon.

This is where the Yamahas come in. Generally, very decent intonation. Probably the most consistent brand from horn to horn I've encountered out there. Animate, but always seeming to lack that, hmm, special sauce...at least for me. Definitely a very solid second choice. I've played a 631-G and liked it. The 8315 has a good, open sound when I've heard it on recordings, but I think I would be restricted to using it solely for more commercial playing.

I did get an email back from Marcinkiewicz. There are no flugels available anywhere with any of their dealers (worldwide). That pretty much wraps up that one.

Best,
LC


Last edited by L C on Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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