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Hetman oil became Meinlschmidt ?


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michael_bxl
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:45 am    Post subject: Hetman oil became Meinlschmidt ? Reply with quote

Hi,

I was planning to buy some Hetman branded valve oil but it is out of stock in the shops I went (in Europe).

http://www.hetman-eu.com/
( http://www.hetman.com is out of service) see edit
The website redirects us to https://www.jm-gmbh.de/schmiermittel/

Do you have any informations ? Did the name change ? Are those oils identical ?

Thank you

edit : the .com website works, but not in Turkey where some websites are blocked for no reason...
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Last edited by michael_bxl on Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try that .com link again because it just worked for me.

Something definitely is happening with Hetman. Many music instrument retailers have been out of stock of Hetman #1. I had a back order at Long and McQuade here in Canada for a couple of weeks and the order arrived yesterday so perhaps things are getting back to normal.
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michael_bxl
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I have checked the back of the bottles on Thomann.com where J. Meinlschmidt is listed from november 2019.

Both are from the same company, have the same address and phone number.

So... J. Meinlschmidt = Hetman

=
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see your bottle says " Made In Germany ". The bottles I received Monday say
" Made In The USA ". Their USA company name is MUSIKWERKS, South River, New Jersey, USA. The American name sounds German.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The American name just means "Music works", in this context "works" implies "company". What you don't say, is whether the "oil" is made in the U.S. or is imported from Germany and just sold through this company. It could be the same product, just distributed differently.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
The American name just means "Music works", in this context "works" implies "company". What you don't say, is whether the "oil" is made in the U.S. or is imported from Germany and just sold through this company. It could be the same product, just distributed differently.

If you are referring to GeorgeB’s post, I think the words “ Made In The USA “ pretty clearly states where it was made.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, quibbling I suppose, but the U.S. containers and English text could be made in America but the fluid imported from Germany. In that case, it might be advertised as "Made in America". But I don't see why, actually. Frankly, I don't care where it's made, I'll use the stuff, anyway.
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's going to be clear where it's made, or who makes it. And I think this is by design. Maybe they purchased the right to make it themselves, maybe they purchased the company. But the Meinlschmidt website implies that THEY designed a new line of lubricants, while it seems like they're just selling re-branded Hetman lubricants.

Mike
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Well, quibbling I suppose, but the U.S. containers and English text could be made in America but the fluid imported from Germany. In that case, it might be advertised as "Made in America". But I don't see why, actually. Frankly, I don't care where it's made, I'll use the stuff, anyway.

It is possible that the fluid could be imported, but that certainly would not be what the average citizen expects, nor what the law requires.

The declaration of where something was made is on the contents, not the packaging.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been rumors about Hetmans products for a while now. And the redirection of the European link is interesting.

It certainly does cause one to think. I hope everything is ok since I really like and use their products.

But some of this could have a very simple explanation. For example shipping large quantities of fluids across the ocean is not cheap. So if I were selling valve oil in other continents I might pay a contract manufacturer to reproduce my formulas on the same continent.

In addition if the contract didn’t specifically prevent the CM from selling the product it is possible the CM might market it themselves. (Kind of sleazy in my opinion if not done with permission)

The CM could also use the formula as a staring point to produce their own unique variant.
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as the quality of the product remains the same I honestly don't care were it's made.
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michael_bxl
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway, next time you go to your oil seller, instead of Hetman, you may have to ask for some J. Meinlschmidt (yes, I copy-pasted the word, don't ask me to write it, even worse, to pronounce it) this is a - bad - joke... or not
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Dennis78
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazon is still in stock of the Hetmans line up
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trombahonker
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetman family is experiencing health-related issues and is essentially defunct, heading toward closure. Meinlschmidt has been the sole distributor for Hetman products in Europe for some years. When they were unable to secure more Hetman lubricants, they backward engineered them and are now producing their own identical "Hetman"-style lubricants for distribution in Europe.

Won't surprise me if they show up in USA, too. With Hetman out, the only game in town for a full line of synthetic lubricants is Monster Oil.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know the shelf life of these oils?
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trombahonker wrote:
Hetman family is experiencing health-related issues and is essentially defunct, heading toward closure. Meinlschmidt has been the sole distributor for Hetman products in Europe for some years. When they were unable to secure more Hetman lubricants, they backward engineered them and are now producing their own identical "Hetman"-style lubricants for distribution in Europe.

Where did you hear this? And is any of this verifiable?

Mike
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrumpetMD wrote:
trombahonker wrote:
Hetman family is experiencing health-related issues and is essentially defunct, heading toward closure. Meinlschmidt has been the sole distributor for Hetman products in Europe for some years. When they were unable to secure more Hetman lubricants, they backward engineered them and are now producing their own identical "Hetman"-style lubricants for distribution in Europe.

Where did you hear this? And is any of this verifiable?

Mike

+1

Not challenging. But since hetmans is my go to oil, I really am curious.
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
TrumpetMD wrote:
trombahonker wrote:
Hetman family is experiencing health-related issues and is essentially defunct, heading toward closure. Meinlschmidt has been the sole distributor for Hetman products in Europe for some years. When they were unable to secure more Hetman lubricants, they backward engineered them and are now producing their own identical "Hetman"-style lubricants for distribution in Europe.

Where did you hear this? And is any of this verifiable?

Mike

+1

Not challenging. But since hetmans is my go to oil, I really am curious.

Thanks for adding this LittleRusty. I'm not challenging the statement either. I'd just like to see what can be verified.

Mike
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of the precise situation with the brand 'Hetman', it appears that oils sold under the 'JM' brand are very similar (identical?) and use the same scheme for naming the variety of oil.

Jay
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Dennis78
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully the blend is matched. Hetmans has been a miracle in quite a few of my horn and especially in my latest endeavor. Band supplied instrument was supplied with Blue Juice and a sticky first valve. After a good clean I switched to lanolin on the slides and Hetmans 2 on the valves and have had no trouble. I think my chemistry mixes well with Hetmans as does a lot of other various lubes and it would sure be ashamed to see it lost
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