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Masterplayer1000 Regular Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2018 Posts: 13
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:54 am Post subject: rhythm practice? |
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In our jazz band, we are playing a piece called GMT ( Greenwich Mean Time), I am generally bad at rhythm and I cant learn to read the music. in order to even play it, i have to memorize the music. is there any way i can improve my jazz skills and my skills with weird rhythms patterns?
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:08 am Post subject: |
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I was taught rhythm at an early age by counting and clapping along with a metronome. A little diligent practice every day will yield permanent dividends that will last you a lifetime. Always do it with a metronome so you can ensure you're staying in time.
https://laytonmusic.wordpress.com/2007/12/19/rhythm-flashcards/
http://michaeldriscollconductor.com/rhythm/
The above sites have free rhythm flashcards you can use to teach yourself. Put on the metronome and count and clap random flashcards until you can read and accurately play any rhythm whatsoever. (I learned "one - ee - and - uh" for sixteenth notes but there are other syllabalic systems that work as well.)
I still have to count and clap rhythms sometimes when learning difficult etudes!
And finally, although I have not actually seen it, Rich Willey put together this book of challenging rhythms for trumpet players: https://www.boptism.com/boptism-music-store/rhythm-madness-trumpet-treble-clef-instruments-rich-willey/
Good luck! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:27 am Post subject: |
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“Masterplayer” (🤔): I would definitely look into Turkle’s suggestions above. The inability to read severely limits your playing opportunities, it’s worth your time to correct that. It won’t happen overnight, but it’s important to do it, IMO.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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gwood66 Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 301 Location: South of Chicago
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Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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I struggled reading jazz rhythms when started my comeback. I came to the conclusion that it was all about pattern recognition and slowing things down when practicing. It is easy to load up something on youtube, read along and copy what you hear. I found that this practice did not help me improve. I now try to sing and play through tunes to the best of my ability prior to going to the recording. This video help me when I was struggling to figure things out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz-ywUM6hFk&t=319s
It also helps to mark the beats so you keep track of where you should be in the line. It just take a little time and practice. Good luck. |
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popTbop Regular Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2019 Posts: 34
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Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by popTbop on Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Benson Regular Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2017 Posts: 35
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Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Rhythmic reading ability, just as any of our trumpet playing skills, atrophies quickly. That said, if you're struggling to read more advanced rhythms, I'll bet the farm you're not reading basic rhythms with an advanced degree of fluency. Schedule a lesson with someone who teaches absolute beginners. Ask them to explain it. Why them? Because they do it ALL DAY!
* Rhythms Complete by Bugs Bower is laid out logically and makes sense. I have used it with great success to torture (re-teach what wasn't ever really taught in the first place) young high school students.
* www.sightreadingfactory.com is practically limitless in it's variation and has audio examples
But neither of those resources will amount to a hill of beans if you don't have the basics locked down. _________________ Benson |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 899 Location: California
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Bar lines are very important. You need to know where you are in each measure. You need to know which beat, 1, 2, 3, or 4, you are on if you are in 4/4 time. Or, which offbeat of each beat. Count out loud and clap the rhythm. OR tap quarter notes on your foot and speak the rhythm if clapping isn't your thing. Don't even try to play it until you can do that. Start slow and gradually increase the tempo. Draw beat lines in pencil on your music so you can see where 1 2 3 and 4 are visually. Then when the time comes to play, count the numbers in your head while playing. |
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cgaiii Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017 Posts: 1543 Location: Virginia USA
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:51 am Post subject: |
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gwood66 wrote: | This video help me when I was struggling to figure things out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz-ywUM6hFk&t=319s
It also helps to mark the beats so you keep track of where you should be in the line. It just take a little time and practice. Good luck. |
Nice video, well worth watching if you struggle with rhythm.
Slowing things down to the level that you are confident in your counting and not speeding up until it is natural really helps.
I saw an interview with Håkan Hardenberger once where he said he never practiced anything fast. He did not want to learn a mistake. He said he only played fast in performance. I am sure his slow is many players' fast, but the point is clear: Practice things at a speed you can play them correctly (as you feel they should be played) and embed the correct patterns. Let the speed develop with familiarity. (This is also something stressed in most banjo methods. Trying to force speed just creates tension.) It is a really hard rule to follow for most of us, and I am no exception.
There is some interesting stuff by Gregg Goodhart that can be applied to learning rhythms. Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fUlbupWYI4 and other video on Youtube. There are some of his sessions with people. _________________ Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9004 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:15 am Post subject: |
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You need to be able to recognize patterns.
Get some big band charts and identify common rhythmic patterns and take, at first, just one note and play the rhythmic pattern, then add the pitches.
If you can recognize the patterns, you can play them at sight and read them as a group rather than a combination of individual notes. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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cgaiii Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017 Posts: 1543 Location: Virginia USA
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: |
If you can recognize the patterns, you can play them at sight and read them as a group rather than a combination of individual notes. |
+1 Applies to all kinds of music. _________________ Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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It may seem like an odd suggestion but I've found it extremely useful to work on rhythm playing the piano. On the horn I have finite time to work on rhythm before the chops poop out. On the keys I can work on a complex rhythm all day. Once I establish a base level of ability on the keys I worked on sight-reading through whole books of tunes in a single sitting.
On the trumpet it could be very useful to find a book of studies that doesn't stress your range and just practice reading the book cover to cover. If you have the chops, sight-reading Charlier is a great workout. Doesn't cover the jazz stuff but your reading will shoot up which should make everything easier. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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mike ansberry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 1605 Location: Clarksville, Tn
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I used sightreadingfactory.com extensively with my band classes over many years. They developed into excellent readers. It also has just rhythm exercises. The site will generate exercise after exercise. It is an excellent resource _________________ Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt. |
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mike ansberry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 1605 Location: Clarksville, Tn
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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I still use it myself for tuning exercise and for reading. _________________ Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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popTbop wrote: | Take up the drums!
You'll either improve your rhythm, both playing and reading, or you'll learn quickly that music may not be your thing. |
Hey, REALLY helpful. 🙄 So maybe I should tell my students who struggle with reading that “music may not be your thing”??
He didn’t say his problem was rhythm, it’s READING, “take up the drums” isn’t going to fix that, he won’t be able to read drum notation either.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3298 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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A challenge for me is that sometimes the way the rhythm is notated (by the composer / arranger) makes it difficult to determine the way it should be played.
So when you DO get the feel for how the rhythm should be interpreted - carefully compare that to the way it is notated.
For example, there's a piece written in 6/8 (played in 2) with this pattern -
1/4 1/8 1/8 1/4
in some places the 1/8's are tied, and in other there is no tie.
The rhythm is intended to have the 'feel' of a triplet (3 1/4's in 2 beats). Trying to 'read it' as
(1/4 1/8) (1/8 1/4) doesn't work - for me anyway ....
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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jazzjezz Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2010 Posts: 108 Location: SE UK
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:03 am Post subject: |
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I have an iPad app called "Rhythm Calc" that allows you manually input a rhythm in musical notation which can then be played back at various speeds.
I have have found it invaluable for a couple of fiendish passages - (most notably Michel Camillo charts....).
Putting the rhythm in to the app makes you analyse where the beats are, and then the playback demonstrates the straight interpretation of that rhythm.
Doesn't beat listening the to track played properly but I find it a useful tool for getting up to speed. |
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chuck in ny Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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popTbop wrote: | Take up the drums!
You'll either improve your rhythm, both playing and reading, or you'll learn quickly that music may not be your thing. |
i got a set of sticks and a practice pad years ago that i am just now getting into. good suggestion. this pursuit does not have to be expensive or even take up floor space. |
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adam.arredondo Regular Member
Joined: 03 Jul 2018 Posts: 20
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