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How stock stainless steel valves trumpet ?



 
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shal
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Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 20
Location: France

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:40 am    Post subject: How stock stainless steel valves trumpet ? Reply with quote

Hi,

These days, I prefer play with my Bach Bb.
So I want to stock my old and venerable Taylor London.
But this trumpet has equiped of Bauerfeind valves , so steel valves.

I have read here ( https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=91763 ) that there is drawbacks with this kind of valves if you don't use it during long term,

Stock in dismantled state or inside the trumpet?
With oil , witout oil

Have you advise please ?

I will send a email to Mister Taylor in conjonction of yours advices
_________________
Bb: Taylor London
Bach 37ml 1965
C: SchilBach (aka Bach 229L with Schilke modification)
Bach 239L
Bugle: Kanstul 1525
Piccolo : Stomvi (11A Schilke)
Mouthpiece :artisan 1C or 1-1/2B or 1-1/4C or 1-1/2C or even 7C or .....
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Dennis78
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Joined: 28 Feb 2015
Posts: 545
Location: Cincinnati

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Store the horn completely dry. No moisture and no oil
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a few different ones
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Ed Kennedy
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 2813

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a repair tech I see many instruments, especially middle and high school instruments, that have been stored away over the summer break and all the valves and slides become frozen in place. that's very good for my income! I have a few band teachers who at the end of the school year, have a instrument cleaning party with students doing most of the work and the valves and slides are stored in ziplock bags with the instrument. They never have issues, just lube and reassemble when it is time. I would recommend the same for you if you plan to store it for a long time.
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Ronnman
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Joined: 09 Aug 2019
Posts: 75
Location: SE Louisiana

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Kennedy is right on the mark.

Another reason to store separately is galvanic corrosion, although slight. The noble difference between the valve casing (Brass) and the valve piston (Stainless Steel) or (Nickel) sets up this corrosion. Any moisture in the mix will increase the corrosion rate. Basically, a very small voltage (milli-volt) is generated and causes the brass (least noble) to give up its molecules to the stainless steel or nickel. It would take a long time (years) for this to be visible, but it can occur.

See link to Corrosion Metal Chart below.

Depending on which stainless steel or nickel the manufacturer used, will determine the the corrosion factor. For instance, nickel and brass have greater difference than some stainless steels and brass in metal nobility, therefore will have greater corrosion rate.
Ron

https://imgur.com/gallery/BVJEqg0 - - > Just skip registration at the top right.
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Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Martin Committee #2 1954
Selmer Signet 1969


Last edited by Ronnman on Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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shal
Regular Member


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 20
Location: France

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Thank for responses

For the link , remove the final dot : https://imgur.com/gallery/BVJEqg0

Ok, on theses confinement days , I have the time for clean the trumpet and disassemble it. For some weeks, months or years (How knows).
_________________
Bb: Taylor London
Bach 37ml 1965
C: SchilBach (aka Bach 229L with Schilke modification)
Bach 239L
Bugle: Kanstul 1525
Piccolo : Stomvi (11A Schilke)
Mouthpiece :artisan 1C or 1-1/2B or 1-1/4C or 1-1/2C or even 7C or .....
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Ronnman
Regular Member


Joined: 09 Aug 2019
Posts: 75
Location: SE Louisiana

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shal - thanks, period deleted.
Ron
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Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Martin Committee #2 1954
Selmer Signet 1969
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Tony Scodwell
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Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1663

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:16 am    Post subject: Stainless steel valves Reply with quote

I found that the Bauerfeind stainless steel valves on my early flugelhorns would indeed stick if not used for a couple of days. As I was playing regularly in those days it wasn't a huge problem but when my work dried up and the flugel sat unplayed for a few days, my remedy was to lightly coat the pistons with lanolin. I figured this was a good idea as Kanstul always sent new horns out to dealers like this and a simple wipe down and re-oiling the valves was enough to get going again. I hope this helps.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com
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Beyond16
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Joined: 07 Jan 2020
Posts: 88
Location: Coronaville, TX.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have bought and repaired several vintage horns. Corrosion damage is often present, and from what I can tell the cause is putting the horn away with too much moisture left in. One had a corrosion circle on a valve and the cause looks like water had repeatedly pooled against the valve when stored.

Storing with no oil or grease sounds like a good idea, though I can't imagine either one doing serious damage to a horn without the help of moisture. Every time I finish playing I remove the mouthpiece before blowing out the water keys so that a can get a really good blow. I blow with both open and closed valves so all tubing gets a little air. Then I shake the horn. I know this helps because water droplets often come out the valve bottom caps.
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B_Starry
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Joined: 06 Jun 2002
Posts: 873
Location: Coastal Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been disassembling horns and storing them for decades. The simplest solution is to empty the horn of condensation, swab it, and take out the valves and wrap them in paper towels, and store them in a plastic sandwich bag. Do the same with the slides.
Make sure the bottom caps are removed from the instrument and cleaned before storage.

No need for lanolin or slide grease on them, but I imagine it couldn't hurt. I just have never done it, and i have literally stored dozens of horns like this for many years.

When it is time to reassemble them, after cleaning with a microfiber cloth (clean/new!), simply oil and grease like you would normally do, and you will be good to go!

If you want to be overly cautious, then blow some valve oil through the instrument before disassembly, to "coat" the insides.

It is a good idea to disassemble any horn before storage, as I had a Schilke B6 whose second slide froze up on me before I started using this storage routine.
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found that, for me, Al Cass oil dries up and seizes the valves. This happens, for me, within days if the weather is hot and dry.

I bring this up as a reason to store the horn dry.
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