Claude - Transition from cornet to lead trumpet

[EricV]

I was just thinking the other day about how CG studied with Clarke for 10 years on the cornet and wondering how he then became a great lead trumpet with CBS, studios etc. Did he have lessons with someone else on how to play lead trumpet as these are very different skills i imagine to what he learnt from Clarke.

Maybe in that era the skills were a lot closer than now, as playing cornet Air varie solos and brass band playing require very different training than what is required to play trumpet professionally in the studios, TV etc today.

I am just interested in how he finished with Clarke and then developed a career in the LA scene.

Stay safe
EricV
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[Jeff_Purtle]

It's worth looking over Claude's bio. He was born in 1916 and moved to Los Angeles from Montana when he was 19 and had just gotten married to Ginny after only knowing her a couple weeks. Kind of crazy but he said they just met and got married and the was a big factor in his success. She was very cool and they were a team. She let Claude just practice and teach to the point when she died Claude didn't even know how to do laundry or cook for himself. Kind of sad to see that.

Claude would have moved to Los Angeles in about 1935 to study with Clarke and then Clarke died in 1945. You have to put yourself in that time and think about how jazz and big band music was changing. Claude was an incredible player and you can definitely hear the cornet solo influence in his big band albums. Those albums were made after Claude won a nationwide dance band competition in 1959. At that time players like Dizzy. Gillespie, Miles Davis, Clifford Brown and others were on the scene. Audiences didn't go to dance to live bands like they did after the WW2 times. Jazz and big band music was turning into something less focused on the dancing.

I think the bigger point to take away is that Clarke was teaching Claude fundamentals in the similar way that Claude did with his students. It was kind of universal truth that helped anyone to play better no matter the style. Clarke didn't like jazz or trumpet because of his religious upbringing and because the earlier trumpets didn't sound great or play as well as the cornets Clarke used in his playing career that would have stopped around 1918 when Clarke turned 50. Clarke stopped at 50 because he had hear Levy play after that and didn't want to be remembered for anything less than the top of his career.

Claude played with guys like Conrad Gozzo and Mannie Klein and Rafael Mendez and others. All of them were unique in their playing. Uan Rasey was also around at that time. Someone can correct me if I am wrong about this but I think Mendez was fired and Uan replaced him. How crazy is that to fire Rafael Mendez? But, someone wanted a different sound.

Claude admired Gozzo and his lead playing and sound. You can hear Claude talk about that on all this audio I have posted. I asked Claude why he studied with Maggio and he said he was hoping to get something from it to sound more like Gozzo. It shows you that Claude was wanting to learn more. Claude told me that he learned from Maggio but it was really Clarke that helped him the most. That is why Maggio is the only other person besides Clarke listed as a teacher of Claude in his books. Claude was kind of annoyed at the "Maggio" book when talking about it because he said there was so much more and that he had been a much longer and more serious student of Maggio than Carlton McBeth who compiled that book. (It's similar to the way some old timers felt about Schlossberg and the "Schlossberg" book that was compiled by his son-in-law that wasn't the player that other Schlossberg's students were.)

Listening to live music and lots of various things is important. We can gain all the technical skill on the trumpet to make it do anything and then it's our imagination that can make the music the way we want. Claude actually listened a good bit of orchestral music and classical piano. The Velocity Studies book is basically a rip off of Hannon Piano Studies. In some of this audio Claude talks about being friends with Louis Davidson and Louis playing a tape of himself doing Scherherazad and how Mannie Klein was there and said, "Louis, I can do it better." Mannie was pretty awesome and I'm sure Mannie could have played it just as good too. In the 1977 audio on my site you will hear Charles Colin introducing Claude and mentioning William Vacchiano. These guys all knew each other and respected each other because they were great players and serious about trumpet.

Learning to play lead trumpet is something you learn on the job more than in a lesson. You can listen to some of the audio of Carl Leach talking about playing lead in Vegas and San Francisco and with Stan Kenton. There are certain things you pickup along the way especially when you are playing the same show and music night after night. How the section works with the 1st trumpet player is similar in different styles with that person setting the phrasing and pitch and everyone matching.

One bit of trivia few people might not know is that when the Johnny Carson Tonight Show moved to Los Angeles there were at least two people considered for that job as the leader of the band. Doc Severinsen and Claude Gordon were considered and of course Doc got the gig. Doc is still a tremendous player and a perfect showman for that gig. Claude never could have done what Doc did. Sometimes the gig is more than just playing the notes.

Jeff
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Jeff Purtle
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[mcstock]

Claude Gordon was one of the subjects interviewed for a very extensive dissertation on Clarke's life and career. The others interviewed are Walter R. Laursen, Ellis McLintock, James Maxwell, William Pruyn, and Leonard B. Smith. It doesn't appear to be openly available online. Anyone associated with a university can read it in the Dissertation Abstracts database. If you're not affiliated with a school your public library may be able to get you a copy. The citation is:

Madeja, James Thomas. "The Life and Work of Herbert L. Clarke (1867-1945)." University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 1988.

Best,
Matt
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[John Mohan]

So glad to see the two replies above. I had seen the original post here earlier but just don't have the time now to make good thorough replies. Thanks guys!

[kehaulani]

Love your photo, John. Lovely.
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