Bach Artisan 3C

[napoorsocapo]

Anyone play the Bach Artisan 3C mouthpiece? Is it similar to MT Vernon? Bright or dark?

[zaferis]

I don't play on one, but have one in my trial kit, but I saw no responses... my 2 cents.


A little deeper cup than a standard Bach 3C, so mellower. To me the rim is akin to a standard Schilke, more rounded, less bite. A warmer, old school kind of tone.
I don't play it, and have played very little on it, have it in my kit for students to try.

I'm playing Curry 3 rims now, and find standard Bach 3 or 1.5's to have to much bite, and the Artisan to not have enough.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[jadickson]

The backbore is larger on the Artisan pieces, too, unless I am mistaken.

[epoustoufle]

Previous thread, if helpful.

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=153131

[napoorsocapo]

It seems that it is not widely known or widely used. But the sound seems to be very good. Maybe a little too bright. Someone might not like support. However, it seems to me of superior quality.

[JLandressBrassCustServ.]

Hi zaferis,

We agree with you on your assumptions with the Bach standard vs. artisan mouthpieces.

We have found the entire artisan line to have a slightly softer (less inner bite) and more rounded rim contour than the current Bach lineup.

These should harken back to the older Mt. Vernon and NY era Bach mouthpieces.

The backbores all "should" be a stock #10 backbore on both the Artisan and Standard line if you are looking at mouthpieces out of the Bach C Cup series... again "should" be...

If the mouthpiece responds more dark or bright, we find that this is based on the player/ horn combination coupled with the amount of lip intrusion used by said player. Since these mouthpieces have a significantly different rim contour, chop intrusion and response will vary greatly depending on where/ how you set the mouthpiece from the standard line.

Please let me know if you have any further questions, we are always happy to help.
_________________
Garrett Faccone
Customer Service
garrett@jlbrass.com

J. Landress Brass, LLC.
153 West 36th Street 3rd Floor
NY, NY 10018
Shop: 646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com

[rockford]

The Bach Artisan mouthpieces are different from the standard mouthpieces in a few ways. The throat has a new shape and the standard back bore is a 24. The 7D has a 76 back bore and the 7E a 117, just like the standard. They also have the Artisan throat. The rim and cup are the same as the standard mouthpieces.
_________________
Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190.

[EastWest]

Dear All,

re: the Bach Artisan 3 C mouthpiece; may I ascertain as to whether or not, it is the case, that, the Bach Artisan 3C Mouthpiece is designed with the configuration of 24 Backbore, which, according to the information that I have from way back, possibly almost twenty-six years ago; or, ref: TrumpetHerald, Chris King; in which, it states that, a 24 Backbore, would ordinarily be present in the 'A' Mouthpiece; an excerpt from my reading / compilation of information, is as follows:

24 Standard with the A cups, a bigger backbore than the #7. Also works very well for orchestral use, or balancing out a tight horn’s playing characteristics (as would the #7). Bigger, darker, symphonic.
and, the information for the C cup mouthpieces, is as follows:

10 The standard backbore with C cups. It’s generally middle-of-the-road out of the box. Some guys like it for orchestra, some guys play lead on it, etc. I’ve used backbores of this configuration for pretty much everything myself.


I can search the Bach Mouthpiece but, not sure, as to whether or not, there is a mention to the Artisan Mouthpiece.

All infromation welcome.

Thanking you in advance.

Regards,

Neeraj
[New member from London, UK
and, re-commencing my journey on learning & practising Trumpet / Cornet / Flugelhorn, which, has been left aside for some twenty-five years.]
_________________
Trumpet:
Bach Stradivarius LT1901B
Yamaha Xeno YTR-8335 S II
Yamaha YTR-634
Cornet:
French Besson Sovereign 928 Bb Silver Plate
CONN 1050A CONNquest
Flugelhorn:
CONN Vintage One 1FR
Mellophone in F: YMP – 204MS
Mouthpieces: Bach 3C

[JayKosta]

The most recent Bach Mouthpiece Manual that I found online is AV6001 revision 04/07 .
And for (non-special-order) C cup trumpet mouthpieces it says -
“C” Cup Models-No. 10 backbore .
And that seems to apply to the Standard, Artisan, and Mega lines.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[theslawdawg]

[JayKosta]

[EastWest]

@theslawdawg

....thank you for the link theslawdawg; forgot all about the Conn Selmer site; which, once upon-a-time, I used to continuously visit it; excellent.

So, now the throat is a 27 = the standard trumpet mouthpiece dimensions of:
Standard
Trumpet
27
3.66mm
0.144″

compared with the Megatone dimensions which are configured to the following:

Std. Megatone
Trumpet
26
3.73mm
0.147″


which makes it smaller / constricted by 0.003mm; which, is a significant amount; and, yet the Backbore is larger in dimension, to the configuration of a 24 Backbore, which is as follows:

24 Standard with the A cups, a bigger backbore than the #7. Also works very well for orchestral use, or balancing out a tight horn’s playing characteristics (as would the #7). Bigger, darker, symphonic.

which, makes the Backbore wider than the regular 3C mouthpiece; but, the Artisan Mouthpiece, now, has a constricted Throat compared to the Megatone 3C which i use; which now, put this situation in a quandary.

I was viewing the Monette Mouthpiece, which seemed to have opened up the throat and the Backbore; by enlarging them somewhat, e.g. their mouthpiece: STC-1 B6; has both open Backbore and throat. Which, begs the question of what kind of impact this would have on the player. I can only assume that one, the player would tire out more quickly; which, Bach also stipulates to be the case, should both Backbore and throat be opened-up; which, is the case for the 24 Backbore, which compares with the A or B type mouthpiece.

On another point, I am curious as to the nature of the principle of the Artisan Mouthpiece; in which, the Backbore is opened-up, but, not the throat. I can guess, that on the one hand, it is better to only change one configuration at a time; but, then, again, other manufacturers other than Monette, have opened up both Backbore and Throat; thus, increased its width.

All thoughts welcome.

Thanking you in advance.

Regards,

Neeraj
[New member from London, UK
and, re-commencing my journey on learning & practising Trumpet / Cornet / Flugelhorn, which, has been left aside for some twenty-five years.]
_________________
Trumpet:
Bach Stradivarius LT1901B
Yamaha Xeno YTR-8335 S II
Yamaha YTR-634
Cornet:
French Besson Sovereign 928 Bb Silver Plate
CONN 1050A CONNquest
Flugelhorn:
CONN Vintage One 1FR
Mellophone in F: YMP – 204MS
Mouthpieces: Bach 3C

[EastWest]

@JayKosta

Hello.

Yes, the same Bach Manual, which I also have.

Thanks.

Thanking you in advance.

Regards,

Neeraj
[New member from London, UK
and, re-commencing my journey on learning & practising Trumpet / Cornet / Flugelhorn, which, has been left aside for some twenty-five years.]
_________________
Trumpet:
Bach Stradivarius LT1901B
Yamaha Xeno YTR-8335 S II
Yamaha YTR-634
Cornet:
French Besson Sovereign 928 Bb Silver Plate
CONN 1050A CONNquest
Flugelhorn:
CONN Vintage One 1FR
Mellophone in F: YMP – 204MS
Mouthpieces: Bach 3C

[EastWest]

@JayKosta

re: the Manual, which i must have consulted way back in c.2007, in which, it states the following somewhere, is it page 11, or, is it the case, that, I read it on this WebPortal during that time period; that, The Megatone 3C mouthpiece comes with the following configuration:

Backbore for Megatone 3C; made to order from Mouthpieceexpress.com
No. 25 =

Special: No. 26, 3.73mm (.147”) (Standard Mega Tone)

Of course, I am trying to compare this Megatone with the Artisan 3C.

All thoughts welcome.



Thanking you in advance.

Regards,

Neeraj
[New member from London, UK
and, re-commencing my journey on learning & practising Trumpet / Cornet / Flugelhorn, which, has been left aside for some twenty-five years.]
_________________
Trumpet:
Bach Stradivarius LT1901B
Yamaha Xeno YTR-8335 S II
Yamaha YTR-634
Cornet:
French Besson Sovereign 928 Bb Silver Plate
CONN 1050A CONNquest
Flugelhorn:
CONN Vintage One 1FR
Mellophone in F: YMP – 204MS
Mouthpieces: Bach 3C

[JayKosta]

[EastWest]

@JayKosta,

....thank you for your reply; yes, indeed, am working my way through the many posts related to the aspect of Mouthpiece(s), in which, i have observed, something of, as you quite aptly put it, 'creative writing'; which, tickled me, and even tickles me, and got me in stitches, guffawing out loud; i was imagining, Laurel and Hardy, Buster Keaton coming along with Charlie Chaplin, and, Harold Lloyd, all doing their impersonations of mouthpiece exploration; trying out all different mouthpiece. Interesting.

But, what has occurred is this: during this pandemic, I have been practising with musicians in the Park, some of whom a studying at the Royal Northern College of Music for their degrees; and, i have noticed that, my 1972 Yamaha YTR-634, which is a .460" bore, 5" Red Brass Bell; together with my Megatone 3 C mouthpiece, does permit notes to be played softly, and pp pianissimo, which i enjoy in a room, and or a concert hall enclosure;; but, in the park; i can't seem to get the volume competing with the tenor saxophonist; and, then, there is the guitarist; and double bassist, percussionist, and singers; all driven through acoustically; and, my sound is just lost, albeit, non-existent. And, several members in the audience have yelled ' we can't hear you' which, was not apparent to me, until they came over to sit my by; at which point, i leered and thought, enough already, what's this; and, then, it occurred to me that, the same actually applies to all the others who may not be able to listen neither.

Then, i thought, ought I to get the Yamaha YMP-204MS Mellophone in F fixed, which will cost me a heck of a lot of money, as there are dings, and dents, and re-plating required; which, presently, i cannot afford, and, then, there will be the requirement to get tuned in to the instrument which is in the key of F; another task.

Thus, I have commenced on the exploration of the issue of the Spring for the Cornet, BE928 Sovereign which is a .465" Bore, with a 5" Rose Brass Bell; which, when i used it way back, it sounded alright in a band; you know, how bands play in parks; which, instigated me to affix the spring in to position; you know, that, issue which we have been conversing about; for which, I think, I may located a technician in Leeds, for whom, I have booked an appointment for the 18th July, on my to my partner in Harrogate, North Yorkshire.

Until then, I was merely exploring the possibility of whether my existing Yamaha Trumpet could sound any louder by changing the mouthpiece? but, am becoming aware that, this is possibly he wrong approach; and, therefore, maybe, as a ML Bore trumpet such a thing, might not be possible.

As such, maybe, I need to move on to a Large Bore trumpet, would you say? but, that would introduce other complexities, i.e. all the physical aspects and initial challenges, of volume of breath / air / and how this could impact on the duration of time of play.



All thoughts welcome.



Thanking you in advance.

Regards,

Neeraj
[New member from London, UK
and, re-commencing my journey on learning & practising Trumpet / Cornet / Flugelhorn, which, has been left aside for some twenty-five years.]
_________________
Trumpet:
Bach Stradivarius LT1901B
Yamaha Xeno YTR-8335 S II
Yamaha YTR-634
Cornet:
French Besson Sovereign 928 Bb Silver Plate
CONN 1050A CONNquest
Flugelhorn:
CONN Vintage One 1FR
Mellophone in F: YMP – 204MS
Mouthpieces: Bach 3C

[EastWest]

@ JayKosta

....though, there is one more thing, with the experience with the Bach 3C megatone mouthpiece; and, that, is that, after about 50minutes to one hour-practice, I can't seem to get many notes out; it is as if, no notes are possible. I wonder what this must be? it is a memory, i have from way back when I was practising a lot at school / university / and thereafter, in the evening; which, I never investigated, as I was only engaged in this activity as a hobby, i.e. not by way of a profession. Now, though, i am more serious about practising and playing; albeit, more focused on all aspects mechanical, maintenance, and studies in Trumpet. As such, been studying many a books, which I have purchased or acquired, including all the books on studies and practice: Claude Gordon - all of his books, Jules Levey- the one , Lowel Little, H L Clarke, Arban, St. Jacombe, J Stamp, W Smith, and so many others, which, I have perused and studied closely; but, yet to find the time to do more than one-hour practice a day; which, i know, i need to increase to at least four-hours a day. A bit of a challenge when working full-time for the MoD even if it is from home.

All thoughts welcome.



Thanking you in advance.

Regards,

Neeraj
[New member from London, UK
and, re-commencing my journey on learning & practising Trumpet / Cornet / Flugelhorn, which, has been left aside for some twenty-five years.]
_________________
Trumpet:
Bach Stradivarius LT1901B
Yamaha Xeno YTR-8335 S II
Yamaha YTR-634
Cornet:
French Besson Sovereign 928 Bb Silver Plate
CONN 1050A CONNquest
Flugelhorn:
CONN Vintage One 1FR
Mellophone in F: YMP – 204MS
Mouthpieces: Bach 3C

[JayKosta]

I own an F mellophone and do not recommend it to play trumpet parts. The sound quality is less good and it would not work for the trumpet pitch range (it is pitched a 4th lower).
It does work fine for playing French horn parts outside in a parade, when loudness is most important - that is its primary purpose.

Try this - borrow a 'bach style' size 7 mouthpiece - (with standard throat and backbore) a size 7C, 7B, or plain 7 should be easy to locate from other players. It might be that having a little more resistance in the mouthpiece would be less tiring, and could allow you to play louder.
The 7 rim is very similar to the 3C.

'Free blowing' equipment can work well for some people, but they have the more lip strength and 'quantity of air'.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[EastWest]

@JayKosta,

....thank you for your suggestions.

I see what you mean about the Mellophone in F; which, is more like the sound of a FrenchHorn. Given that, I have not played it much and that too for such a long time, I suppose, it will take some time to get used to it too. As such, combined with your point-of-view, it might best not to use this for this requirement in the band setting.

The aspect of the Bach 7C mouthpiece - I recognise this; it is the mouthpiece on which I started out, when I was a kid; and, much later in the my teens, graduated to the 3C standard, which, as it happens, I have not played for a long time; as I, later on, graduated to the Megatone 3C; and, this has been my staple ever since; but, that too, seems after some 50 or so minutes, notes become difficult to play.

The 7C will not be a good option. I was chatting with my old tutor, whom i have not seen for a long time, as I am away from home- London, and, presently, in the N West, Liverpool which is some 300miles away; and, have been practising on the Megatone 3C mouthpiece. as this is the only mouthpiece that I have, which comprises of the following configuration; who recommends increasing the backbore and throat, and depending upon the embouchure to consider a slightly larger cup diameter; which I am wondering, I ought to make a move to 2.5C, see below the config:

Std. Megatone
Trumpet
throat = 26
3.73mm
0.147″


instead of the Standard Mouthpiece which is smaller by 0.003" which makes a huge difference; hence, the reason of the Megatone Mouthpiece; but, its Backbore is still a standard #10.

I don't want to reduce the Cup diameter; nor, increase the current by too much, as I am still building on my embouchure, though, each day, it is improving, albeit, more noticeable each week. However, I am wondering as to whether or not, I could benefit from a larger backbore, such as 7; in fact, I am of the view, that, possibly a mouthpiece that, I ought to consider ought to be a

7 Standard with the B cups. This is a more open backbore than the #10. A lot of people like it for orchestral playing, and such. Dark, Schmitt style

Hence, the following Megatone Mouthpieces, ought to be tried for the purposes of Consideration:

3B Medium 16.30 mm Medium wide. A fairly large cup. deep The tone is warm and full.

Or, for a C type:

2.5C Medium 16.40 mm Medium wide, lowered toward the outside. Large cup; brilliant, heroic, crisp C trumpet tone. For players with strong, muscular lips.
A large size for symphony artists having a well trained embouchure. Rich, brilliant tone. (1982)




All thoughts welcome.



Thanking you in advance.

Regards,

Neeraj
[New member from London, UK
and, re-commencing my journey on learning & practising Trumpet / Cornet / Flugelhorn, which, has been left aside for some twenty-five years.]
_________________
Trumpet:
Bach Stradivarius LT1901B
Yamaha Xeno YTR-8335 S II
Yamaha YTR-634
Cornet:
French Besson Sovereign 928 Bb Silver Plate
CONN 1050A CONNquest
Flugelhorn:
CONN Vintage One 1FR
Mellophone in F: YMP – 204MS
Mouthpieces: Bach 3C

[EastWest]

@JayKosta


....actually, I am also beginning to wonder about the following mouthpiece; as this may well be the next move up, for the purposes of acquiring skills and further developing my embouchure; thus, enhancing the development of my practice:

1.5B Medium
deep 17.00 mm Medium wide.
not too sharp. Produces a scintillating, warm tone of large volume. For players with a well-trained embouchure. Comfortable rim contour.

All thoughts welcome.



Thanking you in advance.

Regards,

Neeraj
[New member from London, UK
and, re-commencing my journey on learning & practising Trumpet / Cornet / Flugelhorn, which, has been left aside for some twenty-five years.]
And, may be, it is about time, I gave due consideration to the aspect of the Backbore requirements of a B cup which comes configured with a 7 backbore:

7 Standard with the B cups. This is a more open backbore than the #10. A lot of people like it for orchestral playing, and such. Dark, Schmitt style.
_________________
Trumpet:
Bach Stradivarius LT1901B
Yamaha Xeno YTR-8335 S II
Yamaha YTR-634
Cornet:
French Besson Sovereign 928 Bb Silver Plate
CONN 1050A CONNquest
Flugelhorn:
CONN Vintage One 1FR
Mellophone in F: YMP – 204MS
Mouthpieces: Bach 3C