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coloradomacs New Member
Joined: 19 May 2020 Posts: 8
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:31 pm Post subject: Which Flugelhorn for Jazz? |
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I'm looking to buy a flugel mainly for jazz, I'm currently looking at a few different flugels. The Yamaha YFH 6310Z, maybe some Couesnon flugel I don't have any specific model in mind, and the Kanstul 1525, but that's unlikely as I'm trying to stay in-between $1000-$2000, but ideally more around $1000. I'm open to any other ideas for a flugel too but I probably won't get something new so I can save money. _________________ Bach Strad 37
Yamaha 631G |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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If you want a dark flugel sound with good quality and easy blow cherch for a vintage used Yamaha 631.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 832 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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I second the above Motion ... a used Yamaha 631 ... looks beautiful and plays beautiful ... just ask Chuck Mangione. _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Any used Yamaha is a safe bet and might be approached for what you want to spend. I prefer the 631 but the older silver 731 is fine. For some reason I don't prefer the 6310Z. Sounds more trumpety when I play it, though other players make it sound just fine. For a good and perfectly acceptable tone pair it with a stock Yamaha mouthpiece. If you want wicked dark, try the Reeves HF cup. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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darksmoke Regular Member
Joined: 27 Apr 2020 Posts: 46 Location: Washington
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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If I may add, I believe a large slice of players around the 40s-60s played on French Couesnons (perhaps a tradition started a decade previously) and it became the sort of standard flugel for jazz at the time. You still see them being played today occasionally if you look around some. I am unsure how that company modeled theirs or what specific model the older players would use however. You can do a little research if you think it would interest you. The other (major) French flugel is the Courtouis. These both should be well within your price range and you should be able to get a good one for around $800-1100. Happy hunting. _________________ Bach 1B
-Reeves 40ES DM
-Giardinelli 4*
-Callet SC6 |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Couesnon. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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blbaumgarn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:36 pm Post subject: What kind of flugelhorn for jazz? |
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Let's see, a giakara, a Russel Dixon and a Mangione. Sounds like a slam dunk to me. I have spent very limited time trying a used 631, but pretty silky _________________ "There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9027 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Didn't Shorty Rogers play Couesnon? His was a distinctive sound. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Couesnon from what I can tell set the standard for a particular flugel sound that many favor these days. I've played a few that had a beautiful sound. But these horns also have issues and vary a lot which makes buying one a crap shoot. Better to buy one of the modern horns that have been modeled after the Couesnon. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 8:26 am Post subject: |
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What cheiden said. I play a Couesnon copy from K&H and think it’s easier to control intonation than on the originals from the 1950/60s. That said mine is from 1989 and I KNOW that modern horns are even better. The B&S FBX is just great. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 8:27 am Post subject: |
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PM me. I have something recommended at a very good price in mint condition. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 9:13 am Post subject: |
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I've liked many of the Yamaha models and also the Kanstuls. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Dkjcliff Regular Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2020 Posts: 97
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 9:32 am Post subject: |
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I'll also put in a plug for Yamaha flugels. I recently unearthed my 635T that had been in storage for quite a while. After I cleaned it up, I was amazed at how well it played and sounded. Very mellow and rich, and great intonation throughout. I realized I never really appreciated this horn for how good it is, partially cause when I was playing it a lot back in high school and college I had a lot of embouchure problems, which I'm now correcting. The 635T wasn't in production all that long so it can be harder to find. But if you have a chance to try one, I'd highly recommend it. _________________ Selmer Radial II
Yamaha YHF-635T Flugelhorn
Martin Indiana Cornet |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7012 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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There is a little known choice from Flip Oakes. His Champion flugelhorn is very good for about your price.
Go to: www.flipokes.com for pricing and more info. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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dupac Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012 Posts: 65 Location: Bordeaux, France
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 5:12 am Post subject: |
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Carol Brass 👍 _________________ Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugelhorn + pockets / Olds Super / Conn New Wonder cornet / Music is the healing force of the Universe |
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Stan Harrison Regular Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2010 Posts: 21 Location: Newark, De.
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:21 am Post subject: |
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I think any Flugel is good for Jazz Depends on what sound you prefer from a Flugel. Mangione switched from a Yamaha to a Copper Calicchio a long time ago. I've had a Benge 3fl, a Kanstul 1525, a Harrelson summit flugel, a Calicchio Copper, and now a Brasspire 933 2b which is surprisingly good. It has a more powerful sound than the others due to its heavy Design. but if you play it lightly it can be sweet. However I would recommend a Kanstul 1525 to anyone. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Funny thing, I don’t like the 1525. Very good playability but not my sound, too much trumpet in there. Not very fluffy rather focused and powerful. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2415 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Stan Harrison wrote: | I think any Flugel is good for Jazz Depends on what sound you prefer from a Flugel. |
While all the replies have been helpful, this is the best answer so far. It reminds us that what comes out of the flugelhorn is primarily what you put in it.
In your $1000-$2000 price range, you have a lot of options.
On the inexpensive end, a new ACB Doubler, Dillon Music, or Allora Flugelhorn are all reasonable starter horns (if that's your goal).
A new or used Carol Brass, Jupiter 1100R, Getzen Eterna are all within your budget, and all good horns.
The used Yamaha 631/731 is a classic, and among the most popular choice out there.
Many other good choices out there, including a used Bach 183, a used Conn V1, and others.
I tried a Couesnon a few times. It may have "the sound", but it played very out of tune for me. Maybe it was my inexperience with the horn. But I wouldn't buy one, unless I knew I could play it in tune.
Other characteristics to consider are smaller vs larger bore, small vs larger bell, top sprung vs bottom sprung valves, etc. When I was looking to replace my Getzen flugelhorn, these questions were important to me. I wanted a smaller bore, smaller bell, top sprung, and tight wrap. I couldn't get a horn with all of these characteristics. I ended up with a 1969 Olds L-12 flugelhorn.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7012 Location: AZ
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | Funny thing, I don’t like the 1525. Very good playability but not my sound, too much trumpet in there. Not very fluffy rather focused and powerful. |
Not that it matters much now, but the 1525 needs two changes to reach its original design potential. It needs a French taper tuning bit. The sound and playing characteristics change dramatically for the better with this modification. It also needs, IMO, a Flip Oakes Extreme flugelhorn mouthpiece. With these two things, no one will ever complain that the 1525 is trumpety.
You can still get the FO mouthpiece to fit any flugelhorn taper. The tuning bit would have to be fabricated by MK or some such company. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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theslawdawg wrote: | Couesnon. |
I see one in the Marketplace that has been refurbished...only $4200...oops, just went up to $4300. The guy must think it's better than a Monette or something. |
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