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Maintenance/Slide Questions


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JayKosta
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 957
Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phoenix864 wrote:
...
JayKosta - Do you use alcohol on the Q-tip/rag? The film is definitely surface-level, it comes off very easily.

--------------------------------
I just wipe with a plain paper towel or tissue - no solvent or oil. And just a clean Q-tip.
I don't see a need to use solvent unless plain wiping doesn't leave a clean surface.
There's no need to get the metal 'squeaky clean', just remove the old lube & dirt, and apply fresh lube.

And I just use plain towel or tissue on the male slide legs, Q-tip inside the female legs, and on the inside of the male.
For slide lube, I was plain drug store Mineral Oil - it doesn't 'goop-up' like grease or lanolin can. I also use Mineral Oil on the pistons, followed with a drop or two of Al Cass (or some other petroleum based oil) to give good valve action.

Jay
_________________
King Super 20 (S2 1048, HN White)
Bach 7
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
Looking out my backdoor
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 11113
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
Phoenix864 wrote:
...
JayKosta - Do you use alcohol on the Q-tip/rag? The film is definitely surface-level, it comes off very easily.

--------------------------------
I just wipe with a plain paper towel or tissue - no solvent or oil. And just a clean Q-tip.
I don't see a need to use solvent unless plain wiping doesn't leave a clean surface.
There's no need to get the metal 'squeaky clean', just remove the old lube & dirt, and apply fresh lube.

And I just use plain towel or tissue on the male slide legs, Q-tip inside the female legs, and on the inside of the male.
For slide lube, I was plain drug store Mineral Oil - it doesn't 'goop-up' like grease or lanolin can. I also use Mineral Oil on the pistons, followed with a drop or two of Al Cass (or some other petroleum based oil) to give good valve action.

Jay

Just for grins and giggles, almost every valve oil is petroleum based. The exceptions are oils like BerpBio oil.

This link from Ultra-Pure's website discusses this.

The link also had a note on why one should clean their valves when changing from traditional oils like Al Cass to synthetic. According to the link the possible issue isn't due to a chemical reaction, but is due to the cleaning nature of synthetics.

You learn something every day. The clean your valves when changing to a synthetic has been on here forever, but is normally attributed to chemical reactions.
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 957
Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:

Just for grins and giggles, almost every valve oil is petroleum based. The exceptions are oils like BerpBio oil.

This link from Ultra-Pure's website discusses this.
...

-------------------------
It's not clear to me how the various synthetic oils are formulated - whether they derived from petroleum, vegetable, or animal sources.
See here for MSDS of Ultra-Pure oils -
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj1_4Shl8rpAhUJCc0KHV0BAmgQFjAAegQIAhAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cr.k12.ia.us%2Ffile.aspx%3FDocumentId%3D6371&usg=AOvVaw0QLw6zy4GOIjCwsC4CuxpY

and

http://images.pcmac.org/Uploads/ManchesterCity/ManchesterCity/SubDepartments/DocumentsCategories/Documents/Musical%20Instrument%20Valve%20Oil.pdf

My general usage terminology is that a bottle that says "contains petroleum distillates' is 'petroleum based' and is likely suitable for mixing with Mineral Oil.

Jay
_________________
King Super 20 (S2 1048, HN White)
Bach 7
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
Looking out my backdoor
http://www.pronetisp.net/~jkosta/2020_May_9_b_web.jpg
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 11113
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:

Just for grins and giggles, almost every valve oil is petroleum based. The exceptions are oils like BerpBio oil.

This link from Ultra-Pure's website discusses this.
...

-------------------------
It's not clear to me how the various synthetic oils are formulated - whether they derived from petroleum, vegetable, or animal sources.
See here for MSDS of Ultra-Pure oils -
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj1_4Shl8rpAhUJCc0KHV0BAmgQFjAAegQIAhAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cr.k12.ia.us%2Ffile.aspx%3FDocumentId%3D6371&usg=AOvVaw0QLw6zy4GOIjCwsC4CuxpY

and

http://images.pcmac.org/Uploads/ManchesterCity/ManchesterCity/SubDepartments/DocumentsCategories/Documents/Musical%20Instrument%20Valve%20Oil.pdf

My general usage terminology is that a bottle that says "contains petroleum distillates' is 'petroleum based' and is likely suitable for mixing with Mineral Oil.

Jay

The datasheet lists isomerized olefin which, according to a quick search, is a petroleum distillate.
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 957
Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:

The datasheet lists isomerized olefin which, according to a quick search, is a petroleum distillate.

--------------------------------
The terminology for oils gets complicated. My understanding is that 'synthetic oils' (such as Ultra-Pure Valve Oil) is not considered a 'petroleum distillate'. The raw ingredients of the manufacturing process might include petroleum distillates, but they are chemically altered to more specific hydrocarbons and then those hydrocarbons are reassembled to make the 'synthetic oil'.
The olefin might also come from a vegetable source such as soybeans - e.g.
https://cen.acs.org/articles/83/i1/MAKING-OLEFINS-SOYBEANS.html

Regardless of the details, I think we both agree that some valve oils can cause problems when mixed. And cleaning the valves and cases before changing oils can avoid that problem.

Jay
_________________
King Super 20 (S2 1048, HN White)
Bach 7
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
Looking out my backdoor
http://www.pronetisp.net/~jkosta/2020_May_9_b_web.jpg
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 11113
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My diversion down this path was due to wondering what “synthetic oil” is, not a desire to correct anything. It makes me glad to live in an age where we can quickly find information from the comfort of our armchairs.
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Phoenix864
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Joined: 20 May 2019
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden - the unusual thing is that the residue does not seem to be coming from the valves. When I wiped them down prior to cleaning nothing came off - they appeared to be perfectly clean.

JWG - the residue does appear similar to what the valves were producing shortly after I got the horn. However, I never have stood the horn vertically as I don't own a trumpet stand - it's always been lying horizontally. The valves have also been quite clean. Each time I clean I spray water through the inside of each valve. No debris came out during my latest cleaning. I appreciate the trick nevertheless - I'll keep that in mind for the future.

OldSchoolEuph - thanks for the recommendation. If the residue reappears after my switch to Ultrapure grease, I'll give that a shot. So far so good, though.

JayKosta - thanks for the recommendation as well - I'll also keep that in mind. Would you recommend only following up with a petroleum-based oil, or would a 'synthetic' such as Ultrapure also be acceptable to mix with the mineral oil?

Lastly, is there anything worth checking regarding the 'scratchy' feeling when inserting and spinning the slide legs? The feeling persists even after the cleaning - both slide tubes look to be perfectly smooth.
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