Bach Strad 72* L

[Pash]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to TH, so thank you for accepting me.

I have just returned to playing again after a long break (approx.15 years). I knew very little about my horn until I started to research it very recently. I'm trying to establish how rare or unusual it is and I'm hoping maybe some people on here might be able to help me:

I have what I think is maybe a pretty rare combination of bell shape/weight and bore in my Bach Strad.

It's a sliver Vincent Bach Stradivarius Serial No. 220688 / Year: 1982.

It has a 72 bell and a star engraved under "Elkhart, In USA" which I believe denotes a lightweight bell (?)

However, above the serial number on the 2nd valve casing it has only a single "L" engraved. Which I'm also led to believe denotes the instrument has a large size bore. Not the standard ML. Correct?

I have not been able to find this combination of 72 lightweight with large bore anywhere else on the internet or otherwise.

My question is: Is this a rare combination for a Bach Strad? Is there anyone else out there that has this combo in their Strad?

The instrument itself is loud and projects very well , it really sings if you put a lot of air down but now I'm building up my embouchure again I find it quite fatiguing to play. I'm also guessing it'll probably be a bit too fierce in a small Jazz combo / venue situation? The lightweight bell giving a brighter sound than a regular weight 72 (?)

I'd love to hear your thoughts / experience.

Many thanks for your help.
Best,
Pash

[blownchops]

The 72 lightweight was/is a very popular combination in ML bore.
The large bore is rarer, but I have heard that they work well for lead work and loud work. I have seen/heard of folk playing on them, but I haven't tried one. The difference in bore size is not much, as ML is 459 and L for Bachs is 462.

The 72* bell is known for having some "oomph" to it. I would say your observations are right in line with the characteristics of that model.

Out of my curiosity, is the leadpipe marked with a "43" around where you put the mouthpiece in?
_________________
Bach 37

[Pash]

Thanks Blownchops!

It doesn’t have any marking on the hex on the leadpipe. No marking means a standard 25 leadpipe (?)

[blownchops]

That is correct, you have a 25 leadpipe. Thats a pretty rare bird horn then, a lot of 72*s have a 43 leadpipe. It may have been a custom order from bach.
I am interested to know it it has a lightweight body or just a lightweight bell.

If you look at the first valve slides, are the ferrules that hold the brass tuning slide legs the same size? If one is smaller than the other, the horn has a lightweight body. If they are the same, is has a regular weight body. The lower one is usually the shorter one on LW horns, if memory serves. You dont need calipers for this either, as the ferrule will be noticeably smaller.
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Bach 37

[Pash]

They are different sizes. The bottom one is the smaller one as you say. So this means it has a lightweight body as well as bell , correct?

Is this another rare combo for the 72 ?

[Crazy Finn]

Bach Strad, Large bore, lightweight 72 bell (denoted by the *). I don't think it has a lightweight body, it would have to be a 180LT model, not a 180, I believe.

The guy I played with in orchestra for about 2-3 years had one of these. It sounded nice, but I think it wasn't the easiest blow.
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn

[Pash]

[trumpetchops]

[Pash]

Thanks for the advice Joe, makes sense. What mouthpiece would you recommend. I’m using a Bach 1.5 C which is the mouthpiece I used when I last played when I was at my best.

[jengstrom]

A couple things:

1. Bach does not label the standard leadpipes on a given model. The standard leadpipe for the 72* is a 25-O. If your leadpipe is the original one, it is most likely a 25-O.

2. The 72* is a chameleon of a horn, soundwise. Played softly, it can be dark and smoky, making it a very good jazz horn. If you push it, it lights up and becomes a great lead horn.

Granted, the L bore MIGHT take a little more work. I suggest you stick with the basics, building your strength and efficiency back slowly, and not worry about the horn’s specs. It’s a great horn. Once you are comfortable with your progress, if you still think you might like something else, play some other horns to compare.

My 2 cents.

John
_________________
Bach 43*
Bach 72*
Bach Chicago C
Yamaha YTR-761 D/Eb
Kanstul 1525
Bach 196 picc

[Pash]

[harryjamesworstnightmare]

I had a Strad 72* large bore and standard weight body back around the time your horn was made. They were not a popular model as most everyone else I knew favored a ML with a 37 bell. It is a fabulous lead horn, for a Bach, and is quite adaptable to other playing situations too. One of my friends from back then also played one, in fact he inspired me to get mine, and his sound was outstanding. It's a very flexible horn.
_________________
Brian James
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King Super 20 Symphony
Bach Strad 43 Sterling Silver Plus
Getzen Proteus
Yamaha 6335HS
Olds Super
Olds Mendez
Getzen Custom 3850 Cornet
Conn 80A
Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn

[Ed Kennedy]

The late great Wilmer Wise played a standard weight large bore with a 72* bell. He was a stalwart of the NYC studios and pit orchestras for many years.

[JWG]

I love the Bach 72 bell and, with a light weight version, the horn becomes quite nimble.

The 1.5 B & C mouthpieces are a proverbial "he-man's" mouthpieces (not superhero mouthpieces but definitely for robust embouchures); so, you need to practice regularly to stay in shape.

As for the difficulty you experience coming back after not playing, I have the following advice after my 25 year sabbatical:
First, practice in short segments each day: 6 sessions x 10 minutes over the course of an evening gets you an hour of practice without exhausting or stressing your chops. After a while, you can go 6x15 and then 6x20. By that time, you should be able to handle longer sessions easily.
Second, invest in embouchure-building aids--i.e., muscle strength and endurance training for your chops. I have a P.E.T.E. for when I need to get back my endurance and build up my range for high trumpet parts (often, John Williams movie music makes me break out my P.E.T.E.). Put in 60 minutes or so per day with a P.E.T.E. while watching television or working on your computer, and your embouchure muscles will strengthen quickly. I also bought a Flip Oakes 1.5 XT mouthpiece with a #11 bore for practicing that requires you to work hard to maintain your embouchure and breath control. The #11 bore removes resistance; so, your embouchure must compensate for the loss of resistance found in normal mouthpieces with bores between #24-27. If you can execute the Arutunian trumpet concerto or similarly strenuous music on an 1.5 XT with a #11 bore without an embouchure collapse, you can play with ease on a standard 1.5C (that has a comparatively tiny #27 bore) for rehearsals and performances.

For what it's worth, my $0.02! Good Luck! Have Fun!
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Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF

[blownchops]

[Speed]

Regarding the difference in a 25 leadpipe and a 25-0 leadpipe, the 25-0 is a bit less restrictive than the 25. I don't know the dimensions. Perhaps one of the techs will join in.

I have a Bach 19037 Anniversary Trumpet that I wanted to open up a bit. It comes standard with the 25 pipe. I replaced the 25 pipe with a 25-0. The difference is noticeable, if subtle, with the 25-0 providing a bit less resistance.

It is my understanding that the 25-0 leadpipe is standard with Bach large bore trumpets, except for the 18077, which is a large bore trumpet (by Bach standards) with a #7 leadpipe.

Take care,
Marc Speed

[trumpetchops]

[Pash]

Many thanks for all your comments and advice, much appreciated. I will definitely stick with this horn until I can play properly again

[Ed Kennedy]

[Ed Kennedy]

I may try and find a 37 / 180ML to make my climb a bit easier...