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luckej Regular Member
Joined: 28 Jun 2019 Posts: 28
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:03 pm Post subject: Cornet mouthpiece: v-cups & fitment? |
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Hi!
TLDR:
Are the Denis Wick mouthpiece clones on Amazon etc worth trying?
And should I trim a mouthpiece to help it fit better?
More below, for those who like to read a stranger's ramblings.
I'm getting back into playing after more than 10 years off, playing a few numbers (when I'm not running the board) in a cover band and starting to teach my 8yo son. I learned on trumpet, chose cornet to come back on because of the allegedly "less-brassy" sound.
I've got a copper bell Conn with a Conn 4 mouthpiece and I want to experiment a bit with conical mouthpieces. I've been eyeing the Wick clones (4 & 4B) on Amazon etc because my budget is limited, and last week I got a DeNicola 13c on eBay.
But--it doesn't fit my 1971 Conn (or my son's 1990s Holton) at all well. It wobbles like it's bottomed out, and it seems like notes are harder to hit--that could be my lack of familiarity with a shallow conical mouthpiece, though. I tried to measure the taper, and with the receiver end of two mouthpieces side-by-side and pointing in opposite directions (so they would cancel out of they're the same taper) there's a difference of about .001 inches with my son's Holton mouthpiece and .006-8 inches with my Conn 4, with the DeNicola having the shallower taper in both cases.
So there's some variation in mouthpiece taper, but how much is too much? Of the 3 mouthpieces and 2 cornets I have to try, the Conn 4 is the only one that doesn't wobble at all in either horn. I asked the seller, and they said they hadn't heard of fitment issues with the DeNicola mouthpieces, but they "wouldn't be surprised" as they bought a "bunch of stuff" from Bobby DeNicola's estate and the lettering is double/crooked/etc. Should I try to grind say 1/16" off the mouthpiece, as some have suggested here on TH? Or did I get a dud?
Thanks! |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3302 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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First try wrapping a small piece of paper (or tape) around the shank to see if that gives a usable fit.
Trimming metal off the end of the shank should be a last resort.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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luckej Regular Member
Joined: 28 Jun 2019 Posts: 28
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Jay,
Thanks for the advice, I wrapped plumber's teflon tape around the shank to get rid of the wobble and it seemed to help. Then after a few weeks it fell off and I didn't really notice the difference in playing--probably I had gotten used to the mouthpiece by then. So I've been playing that way for a while now (several months? I can't believe I posted this last June!), and I can't tell that the wobble is causing any problems. I was pretty bummed at the time, so thanks for the quick-and-dirty fix to get me back at it! =) _________________ 1971 Yamaconn cornet (my comeback horn)
Reynolds Argenta
Reynolds Professional
Markneukirchen Fürst Pless
…too many others to list... |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9358 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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I’d say your new mouthpiece isn’t made very well. As for the Wick clones, I’d find a used, genuine Wick on eBay to avoid another disappointment. The Wick 4 is probably way too mellow for the playing you’re doing, though. I’d opt for the 4B, but it will still be a big departure from what you’re used to. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Dale Proctor wrote: | I’d say your new mouthpiece isn’t made very well. As for the Wick clones, I’d find a used, genuine Wick on eBay to avoid another disappointment. The Wick 4 is probably way too mellow for the playing you’re doing, though. I’d opt for the 4B, but it will still be a big departure from what you’re used to. |
These random "clone" mouthpieces aren't always uniform and consistent. In fact, they're consistently inconsistent. They get in the ballpark and stamp whatever size on there. Seriously. The main thing is they try to be close on the blank style and precise size is whatever.
I only see one "clone" mouthpiece on Amazon - the Sonata for $13 or so. That's probably a good way of flushing that money down the drain.
There are ways of getting less expensive mouthpieces, but for the most part, I'd stick with Bach, Yamaha, or Wick. Blessing has their mouthpieces made in Germany and I found them as good as any as far as a generic Bach size. I have their Wick 4B copy and it's nice, but not easy to find. Also, if you're really on a budget, sometimes the UMI brand mouthpieces (Benge, King, Conn, etc) can be good.
Obviously, there are many other good makers out there, but I'd drop $10-20 more to get a real mouthpiece made by real mouthpiece makers as opposed to trying to save a few bucks and get something that's subpar. If you really need a deal, get a Blessing or be patient on Ebay for a genuine piece for a lower price.
As far as your fit issues, it's possible that your receiver is a bit worn as that happens on vintage horns. It doesn't take very much before the fit isn't quite right on either the mouthpiece or receiver end. This is were trained techs can help.
Grinding without a bit more information, not to mention skill will likely result in a paperweight. It's your mouthpiece, do whatever, but that's my opinion. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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luckej Regular Member
Joined: 28 Jun 2019 Posts: 28
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the responses!
Got a lead on a Bach 7 (no letter), what do you think? What about the Reynolds 5A/5B mouthpieces?
What's "too mellow"? I want to be audible next to the guitars and their amps, but besides that.... =) _________________ 1971 Yamaconn cornet (my comeback horn)
Reynolds Argenta
Reynolds Professional
Markneukirchen Fürst Pless
…too many others to list... |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1829 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Kelly mouthpieces is still doing their 50% off sale on some of their mouthpieces. (Not real conservative colors.)
If you want a short shank - they make a 4B Wick clone and a 6V. I purchased a long model cornet 6V - kind of like it - not as deep as a Wick 4. It is around the Bach 6-7 diameter range with a rounded rim. I've had the 4B Kelly - it was ok too.
I tried both a Wick and the Kelly 6V long in a YamaConn American length style cornet and neither shank bottomed out . Both had about the same insertion depth.
I don't care that much for plastic trumpet mouthpieces, but to me, they sound fine on cornet. Nice thing about plastic - you can reshape the rim and cup without worrying about plating. |
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