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jem33445 New Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2020 Posts: 2
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:07 am Post subject: How to try before you buy - Flugelhorn |
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Hi Everyone,
My trumpet playing son would like to start playing the flugelhorn. We tried renting but that didn't work out so we are looking to buy one.
When we bought his trumpet he went to a showcase where there were many manufacturers and models that he could try before buying. He did try to look for a flugelhorn there but they didn't have any.
What is the best way to go about this? I know things are probably totally different or completely up in the air due to Covid19, but I thought I'd ask to see if anyone had any information.
Based on what we've researched online we were considering the YFH 831, the 631G or the Allora AAFG 103F. Or any other suggestions anyone has.
He currently plays the Yamaha YTR-8310ZII Bobby Shew Custom Series Bb Trumpet Silver plated |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:28 am Post subject: Where to buy flugels |
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I'm a bit partial because they are my sole distributor in the world but Chuck Levins Washington Music Center in Wheaton, Maryland is a well know source for virtually all makers of both pro and student horns including flugelhorns. They offer a seven day free trial so even if you aren't in the Washington D.C. area, it's a simple matter to try out your choices. I would contact Lee Walkowich at (301) 946-8808 or leew@chucklevins.com for any information on your needs. Lee is a fine trumpet player and will always give you straight answers.
I hope this helps,
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2412 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:32 am Post subject: Re: How to try before you buy - Flugelhorn |
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Because the flugelhorn is less common that the trumpet, it's hard to find enough of them to try-before-you-buy.
What city do you live in (or what major city are you close to)? Maybe someone here can suggest an store close enough to you that stocks a number of flugels.
The 3 flugels you listed are all reasonable, depending on your goals. The 8315G is Yamaha's top of the line. And the 631G is a standard, and among the most popular flugels. Perhaps a local store can get these in for your son to try?
The Allora is not in the same class as the other two. But it's a reasonable starter horn. It's a 631 clone. I've played one, and it's not a bad horn. A friend of mine recently purchased one and is happy with her purchase.
Mike
EDIT: Tony posted as I was writing my reply. I'll add that Tony Scodwell is a good guy, and Chuck's (which is right down the road from me) is a great place to buy a horn. _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:43 am Post subject: |
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Steve Dillard. HornTrader. He has a try before the sale is final plan.
Or buy a Couesnon. You don't have to do a trial on those. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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adagiotrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 903
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:42 am Post subject: |
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As far as Couesnon flugels are concerned, I am a big fan. The one I currently own is a gem. It has a great sound, decent intonation, and great valves (after a Dr. Valve rebuild). My first Couesnon, not nearly as good. And that is the problem with Couesnon flugels. They are inconsistent, and if you can't play it first, you are taking a chance buying it sight unseen. Also, the Couesnon requires a French taper mouthpiece. Of the three that were listed, I would suggest the Yamaha 631. I would also consider the Yamaha 731, the difference being the 631 has a red brass bell and the 731 has a yellow brass bell and is usually silver plated. I also currently own both the 631 and 731. For the money you can't beat them. And as with Yamaha horns in general, they are very consistent from one horn to the next. I would have no problem buying a Yamaha flugel horn sight unseen. As a matter of fact, that's exactly how I acquired the Yamaha 631. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Can't go wrong with the Yamaha 631/731 or Shew model. If it's a first flugel it wouldn't hurt to start with a used one since they're pretty sturdy. The used horn will hold it's value for trading up if he ever decides to. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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jem33445 New Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2020 Posts: 2
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Thanks. I will look into all the suggestions. We live just outside of NYC (19 miles away), but we vacation in MD so that may be in option. None of the local stores in our area and Northern NJ stock the flugelhorn, so it's considered special order and no returns. |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:12 am Post subject: |
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adagiotrumpet wrote: | As far as Couesnon flugels are concerned, I am a big fan. The one I currently own is a gem. It has a great sound, decent intonation, and great valves (after a Dr. Valve rebuild). My first Couesnon, not nearly as good. And that is the problem with Couesnon flugels. They are inconsistent, and if you can't play it first, you are taking a chance buying it sight unseen. Also, the Couesnon requires a French taper mouthpiece. Of the three that were listed, I would suggest the Yamaha 631. I would also consider the Yamaha 731, the difference being the 631 has a red brass bell and the 731 has a yellow brass bell and is usually silver plated. I also currently own both the 631 and 731. For the money you can't beat them. And as with Yamaha horns in general, they are very consistent from one horn to the next. I would have no problem buying a Yamaha flugel horn sight unseen. As a matter of fact, that's exactly how I acquired the Yamaha 631. |
+1, for Yamaha. They aren't bad. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2412 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:59 am Post subject: |
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jem33445 wrote: | Thanks. I will look into all the suggestions. We live just outside of NYC (19 miles away), but we vacation in MD so that may be in option. None of the local stores in our area and Northern NJ stock the flugelhorn, so it's considered special order and no returns. |
Dillon Music in Woodbridge, NJ. https://www.dillonmusic.com/
If you vacation in Maryland, Chuck Levins, as already mentioned. https://chucklevins.com/
Closer to Baltimore, is Baltimore Brass. http://baltimorebrass.net/
All three stores normally have a good supply of flugels in stock.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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pinstriper Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2013 Posts: 340 Location: Portlandia, OR
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:48 am Post subject: |
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jem33445 wrote: | Thanks. I will look into all the suggestions. We live just outside of NYC (19 miles away), but we vacation in MD so that may be in option. None of the local stores in our area and Northern NJ stock the flugelhorn, so it's considered special order and no returns. |
Dillon Music in Woodbridge NJ. _________________ ~'77 DEG Dynasty II Soprano Bugle in G
'13 Chinese POS "Hawk" branded Flugel
'59 Olds Ambassador Cornet
'51 Olds Super
'69 Olds Studio
'40 Olds Special Cornet, Military Issued |
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mafields627 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001 Posts: 3776 Location: AL
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:49 am Post subject: |
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I have the Yamaha Shew flugelhorn and really enjoy it. One thing for your son to consider is what type of sound he wants from the flugel: dark, thick, almost trombone-like (a Kanstul 1525) or a light, French sound (Couesnon, Yamaha Shew). The mouthpiece also makes a huge difference. You have to make sure it's the right taper shank for the particular brand and make of horn. Then you have to consider the cup depth. My flugel sounds completely different with a deep Curry brand flugel pieces as compared to the Bobby Shew model mouthpiece that came with it. _________________ --Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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mafields627 wrote: | I have the Yamaha Shew flugelhorn and really enjoy it. One thing for your son to consider is what type of sound he wants from the flugel: dark, thick, almost trombone-like (a Kanstul 1525) or a light, French sound (Couesnon, Yamaha Shew). The mouthpiece also makes a huge difference. You have to make sure it's the right taper shank for the particular brand and make of horn. Then you have to consider the cup depth. My flugel sounds completely different with a deep Curry brand flugel pieces as compared to the Bobby Shew model mouthpiece that came with it. |
FWIW, if he goes with a Yamaha flugel then I think it's a good and safe idea to start with the stock Yamaha flugel mouthpiece with an ID that most resembles the piece he uses for the Bb. For a Bach 3C trumpet player either a 14F4 (smaller) or a 16F4 (larger) is a good place to start. Once he gets dialed in, which can take some time, then he can experiment with more specialized pieces. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 832 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Sending you a private message with private secrets ... |
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cgaiii Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017 Posts: 1543 Location: Virginia USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: How to try before you buy - Flugelhorn |
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jem33445 wrote: | Hi Everyone,
Based on what we've researched online we were considering the YFH 831, the 631G or the Allora AAFG 103F. Or any other suggestions anyone has.
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Every player is different, so one player's experience may not be applicable to another. Not sure if your son's playing a Bobby Shew trumpet would lead to his liking the Shew model Flugelhorn or not.
When I was looking for a Flugelhorn, I tried out a bunch of them in used shops in Japan. There were lots of Yamahas. I did not try the Shew, but I did try the YFH 831 and 631. I found the latter much more to my liking than the former. I thought it had more of a flugel sound. The 831, as I recall was a lot lighter, more trumpety. Just one opinion in a sea of opinions. _________________ Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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adagiotrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 903
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: | mafields627 wrote: | I have the Yamaha Shew flugelhorn and really enjoy it. One thing for your son to consider is what type of sound he wants from the flugel: dark, thick, almost trombone-like (a Kanstul 1525) or a light, French sound (Couesnon, Yamaha Shew). The mouthpiece also makes a huge difference. You have to make sure it's the right taper shank for the particular brand and make of horn. Then you have to consider the cup depth. My flugel sounds completely different with a deep Curry brand flugel pieces as compared to the Bobby Shew model mouthpiece that came with it. |
FWIW, if he goes with a Yamaha flugel then I think it's a good and safe idea to start with the stock Yamaha flugel mouthpiece with an ID that most resembles the piece he uses for the Bb. For a Bach 3C trumpet player either a 14F4 (smaller) or a 16F4 (larger) is a good place to start. Once he gets dialed in, which can take some time, then he can experiment with more specialized pieces. |
+1 |
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bachstrad72 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2002 Posts: 871 Location: NJ/Philly
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Dillon Music has 40 flugelhorns in stock as we speak, of various brands between new and used.
And open for in store trials on an appointment basis for the time being |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:25 am Post subject: Re: How to try before you buy - Flugelhorn |
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cgaiii wrote: | jem33445 wrote: | Hi Everyone,
Based on what we've researched online we were considering the YFH 831, the 631G or the Allora AAFG 103F. Or any other suggestions anyone has.
|
Every player is different, so one player's experience may not be applicable to another. Not sure if your son's playing a Bobby Shew trumpet would lead to his liking the Shew model Flugelhorn or not.
When I was looking for a Flugelhorn, I tried out a bunch of them in used shops in Japan. There were lots of Yamahas. I did not try the Shew, but I did try the YFH 831 and 631. I found the latter much more to my liking than the former. I thought it had more of a flugel sound. The 831, as I recall was a lot lighter, more trumpety. Just one opinion in a sea of opinions. |
Of the ones I've tried the 631 is my favorite too. The 731 is similar but not as deep sounding. From behind the bell, to my ears the Shew 8310Z, though it's a great player, doesn't play quite as warm as the 631. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Christian K. Peters Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2001 Posts: 1530 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:40 am Post subject: flugel trying |
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Hello all,
The flugel is a secondary instrument for most, and will have minimal use in most cases. There are two in the marketplace, a Yamaha and a Bach. Both would suffice and the prices are good. I am not selling either one, just passing on info. _________________ Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976 |
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plankowner110 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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You absolutely cannot go wrong with a new/used Yamaha 631G or used 731. I played a 631G professionally for many years (as a secondary instrument to trumpet) and was happy to sell to an aspiring, talented high school trumpet player last year. The instrument was still in pristine like-new condition, so shop around. There are some nice ones out there to be found at reasonable prices. _________________ C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763 |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2047 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Carol Brass used to get rave reviews on here. How about those? I always think the US prices for new CB instruments are quite high compared to European relation but people seem to like them. They should be available used as well. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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