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Marking on Conn 22B (c. 1927)



 
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gruvertpt
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:39 pm    Post subject: Marking on Conn 22B (c. 1927) Reply with quote

I own a 1927 Conn 22B trumpet. There is a marking "B" stamped on the 2nd valve casing next to the serial number. What does this letter mean? Does this refer to the bore size?

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josephdb
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Marking on your second valve being B is there symbol that the brass used on the bell was of French Brass a lighter bell material than their regular line of trumpet . i have had a number of conn 22B's in my day and love their regal and classic trumpet sound.
joe
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does your horn have the gold plating and full length engraving (it was common on the B horns)?

I have 3 22B-early models. The one that is a "B" horn is one of my 3 primary instruments. When I need classic Bach sound, I use my Bach. My AW lets me get a richer tonal pallet more easily, but otherwise my 22B is a horn I do perform on as well as play more on a daily basis than any of the others. These are the only century-old trumpet I know of that remains viable in a modern context as a working tool rather than as a vintage collectible or "historic sound" horn.
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kramergfy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
Does your horn have the gold plating and full length engraving (it was common on the B horns)?

I have 3 22B-early models. The one that is a "B" horn is one of my 3 primary instruments. When I need classic Bach sound, I use my Bach. My AW lets me get a richer tonal pallet more easily, but otherwise my 22B is a horn I do perform on as well as play more on a daily basis than any of the others. These are the only century-old trumpet I know of that remains viable in a modern context as a working tool rather than as a vintage collectible or "historic sound" horn.


I have a 24b, much different animal obviously. What about the old 2b? Wasn’t it like a Bach 37?
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kramergfy wrote:
OldSchoolEuph wrote:
Does your horn have the gold plating and full length engraving (it was common on the B horns)?

I have 3 22B-early models. The one that is a "B" horn is one of my 3 primary instruments. When I need classic Bach sound, I use my Bach. My AW lets me get a richer tonal pallet more easily, but otherwise my 22B is a horn I do perform on as well as play more on a daily basis than any of the others. These are the only century-old trumpet I know of that remains viable in a modern context as a working tool rather than as a vintage collectible or "historic sound" horn.


I have a 24b, much different animal obviously. What about the old 2b? Wasn’t it like a Bach 37?


22, 24, 25, 26, 28 & 29B are all part of the same series, but do have unique aspects certainly - particularly Conn's unique approach to tapers and especially how they implemented change in rate of change in bell diameters relative to bore size. That bore progression in the bell would be one of several ways in which the Conn 2B does not resemble any Bach. When the 2B was dsigned, Bach was just getting started building and was virtually unknown as a maker.
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is said that Bach copied the 2b about the end of the New York era. The tuning slide is interchangeable with mt. Vernon and Elkhart ML bachs for instance. The leadpipe is quite different on a 2b though. The bell is similar to a 37, in sound and in feel. The 2b is made c17 I think, whatever is “French brass”

If you put a Bach pipe on a 2b, it works pretty good. Most 2b pipes have rot to some extent.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lipshurt wrote:
It is said that Bach copied the 2b about the end of the New York era. The tuning slide is interchangeable with mt. Vernon and Elkhart ML bachs for instance. The leadpipe is quite different on a 2b though. The bell is similar to a 37, in sound and in feel. The 2b is made c17 I think, whatever is “French brass”

If you put a Bach pipe on a 2b, it works pretty good. Most 2b pipes have rot to some extent.


There is some sound and feel similarity with later Bach, but it relates to mass and only generally proportions in tapers. Conn was the second US maker to take trumpets seriously, starting in 1920. The first was Holton in 1911. Conn was targeting Holton as benchmark. Bach played Holton before building his horns as varying degrees of hybridization between Holton and Besson. Most Bach horns use what is now a classic American or Bach style bore progression for the tapers - which came from Holton, not Besson. However, in addition to a couple bells, Bach matched some early lead pipes to the French style. By the move to Mt Vernon, he was solidly moving away from Besson elements as can be seen by the progressive flattening of the tuning slide crook in the successive redesigns of (not so much 33-34), 46, 54, and finally the 180s in 63. There are two Bach wrap heights over the span of the New York years and then the New York style built at Mt Vernon, then the MV wrap is taller still. Finally, the 180 is about the same wrap height, but with a different arc length. None of these slides work interchanged, and none are functionally compatible with a D radius Conn.

While a long taper pipe like a 25 would indeed be more compatible with Conn bell tapers than some of the open pipes others employ, it's not as good a match as an original. The stair-step approach Conn takes to varying rate of change is unique and produces the most authentic results when maintained across the system as a whole.

At Mt. Vernon, Bach moved away from French brass, with most of the shop cards indicating "Amer". I don't know the degree to which Conn employed it, but I thought they marked horns where they did.
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veum
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since this is a thread on Conn 22b's, perhaps I can ask about my 1927 22b with an "A" stamped on the second valve casing rather than a "B." Anyone know what that means?

Thanks!

Bill
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veum wrote:
Since this is a thread on Conn 22b's, perhaps I can ask about my 1927 22b with an "A" stamped on the second valve casing rather than a "B." Anyone know what that means?

Thanks!

Bill


Could it be a "V" rather than an "A"? That would be a QC failed horn.
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veum
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, it's clearly an "A."
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darksmoke
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veum wrote:
Nope, it's clearly an "A."

You could try checking a few other Conn 22B related threads on here from before for more info, though I can't exactly remember there being talk about the "A" valve stamping when I read them. I do know that besides the B, the "*" star generally means special order and custom status to some degree. OldSchool seems to have what you want here with it designating a contrasting "American" style trumpet.
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