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What is your strategy to play all trumpet notes in tune?


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cheiden
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:
What about those guys who play with a tuner clipped to the bell? They're always in tune, regardless of where the group is, and regardless of their tone quality... Truly on their own.

There is a right and wrong way to do this. I've known a fair number of people who do it and only a few who do it right.

Gotta' love the guy who's told by the conductor to adjust their pitch and they respond by saying but it's right on the tuner!
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andybharms
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn’t read this whole thread but wanted to throw out an answer that I didn’t see in my quick skim. It’s not one most people want to hear. There is a lot of beating around the bush and misinformation and I haven’t seen many, or any, professionals chime in.

Good intonation starts with knowing what good intonation sounds like. If you can’t sing in tune, and you can’t buzz in tune, you have absolutely zero chance of playing in tune. Slides can do a lot but honestly if the ear and brain don’t know what to do then neither will the triggers. It starts with the brain and ear and ends with soft, flexible embouchure and smooth air flow.

I think people create worse intonation than the trumpet is capable of naturally by playing too stiffly, not balancing air and embouchure... the natural pliability of the notes narrow and the inherent problems with the harmonic series take over and the job because exhausting if not impossible. I know not everybody enjoys the sound of their singing (I don’t) but I am a huge, huge believer in at least being able to hum, cluck like a chicken, whatever it takes to build that connection between ear and sound. And getting some proficiency at singing has some ancillary benefits to other aspects of playing the trumpet.

There that was fun to answer. I hope it gives some food for thought!
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:
What about those guys who play with a tuner clipped to the bell? They're always in tune, regardless of where the group is, and regardless of their tone quality... Truly on their own.


cheiden wrote:
There is a right and wrong way to do this. I've known a fair number of people who do it and only a few who do it right.

Gotta' love the guy who's told by the conductor to adjust their pitch and they respond by saying but it's right on the tuner!

Yeah, I'm sure that some don't use it like a crutch.

In my experience, many people who play with a tuner clipped on, only have a vague idea of pitch, are mediocre at hearing it, and rely on the tuner to tell them what their brain and ears should. They can play with a tuner, but can't play with a group. Fairly useless.

It is possible to use a tuner and a clip on tuner, but it's as a supplement, as a calibration, a check to your ears and brain.

andybharms wrote:
I didn’t read this whole thread but wanted to throw out an answer that I didn’t see in my quick skim. It’s not one most people want to hear. There is a lot of beating around the bush and misinformation and I haven’t seen many, or any, professionals chime in.

Good intonation starts with knowing what good intonation sounds like. If you can’t sing in tune, and you can’t buzz in tune, you have absolutely zero chance of playing in tune. Slides can do a lot but honestly if the ear and brain don’t know what to do then neither will the triggers. It starts with the brain and ear and ends with soft, flexible embouchure and smooth air flow.

I think people create worse intonation than the trumpet is capable of naturally by playing too stiffly, not balancing air and embouchure... the natural pliability of the notes narrow and the inherent problems with the harmonic series take over and the job because exhausting if not impossible. I know not everybody enjoys the sound of their singing (I don’t) but I am a huge, huge believer in at least being able to hum, cluck like a chicken, whatever it takes to build that connection between ear and sound. And getting some proficiency at singing has some ancillary benefits to other aspects of playing the trumpet.

There that was fun to answer. I hope it gives some food for thought!

I couldn't agree more. Singing is very helpful. There's no valves! I'm glad you brought it up.

I'm not a pro (though I have played one occasionally), and when I played more, things like this are the key to actually developing decent or better intonation.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's probably been said before, but playing in tune is relative to the context.

I've said this before too, but I have a friend who's in the Philadelphia Orchestra and I asked him once, "How do you guys play so well in tune?" and he said, "We don't. We play out of tune, together.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:30 am; edited 4 times in total
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andybharms wrote:
I didn’t read this whole thread but wanted to throw out an answer that I didn’t see in my quick skim. It’s not one most people want to hear. There is a lot of beating around the bush and misinformation and I haven’t seen many, or any, professionals chime in.

Good intonation starts with knowing what good intonation sounds like. If you can’t sing in tune, and you can’t buzz in tune, you have absolutely zero chance of playing in tune. Slides can do a lot but honestly if the ear and brain don’t know what to do then neither will the triggers. It starts with the brain and ear and ends with soft, flexible embouchure and smooth air flow.

I think people create worse intonation than the trumpet is capable of naturally by playing too stiffly, not balancing air and embouchure... the natural pliability of the notes narrow and the inherent problems with the harmonic series take over and the job because exhausting if not impossible. I know not everybody enjoys the sound of their singing (I don’t) but I am a huge, huge believer in at least being able to hum, cluck like a chicken, whatever it takes to build that connection between ear and sound. And getting some proficiency at singing has some ancillary benefits to other aspects of playing the trumpet.

There that was fun to answer. I hope it gives some food for thought!


Singing has never once made me sound worse. Every time, without fail, I play more freely after singing. It's like turning on the light.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
It's probably been said before, but playing in tune is relative to the context.

I've said this before too, but I have a friend who's in the Philadelphia Orchestra and I asked him once, "How do you guys play so well in tune?" and he said, "We don't. We play out of tune, together.

Awesome quote.
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: What is your strategy to play all trumpet notes in tune? Reply with quote

Tro.sy wrote:
Hello,
i have been trying again and again to get all the notes on my Trumpet in tune but it never works..
Following notes that are out of tune on my trumpet:
Low notes (from the first line)
D and C too sharp (these notes are too sharp on every Trumpet)
F too sharp
G too sharp
A too sharp
Third space C# too low
Fourth line D (too low)
Fifth line F (too sharp )
And other notes on the upper register


I am getting crazy while using the tuning slides the whole time. So what is the most practical solution??!! [/b]


Much depends upon how you hear some of these tones. That and whether or not you're playing them by yourself or with others. Not to mention that your trumpet tends to play some kind of tuning system different from the piano.

There there once came a day when while listening to myself play the piano my ear began to detect that it just didn't sound correctly in tune. Didn't seem to play perfectly:. Even the day after the college paid to have all of it's pianos tuned. These instruments certainly sounded far better than before. And yet something was clearly off.

And the "problem" is that one can not play in all 12 keys with perfect intonation. This due to the fact that centuries ago the musicians of the day decided to make compromises allowing to substitute slightly out of tune notes in order to best fit a scale of twelve notes.

Confused yet? I was/am. The best that I can do is to find the most horrendous tones and play them a little lower or higher as the case may be. Lower as suits my ear and the electronic tuner. Outside of obvious corrections surrounding low C# and D? My most noticeably out of tune tone tends to be my G/top of staff. Almost no one gets that right and it's a note v common out in the "real world". Common both to Jazz and classical.
L
Solution? Practice with tuner and the alternate fingering of 1/3. Now I can pull my slide and fix that nasty tone!

Beyond this tone and a couple of A naturals I just rely upon my ear and play confidentially. Timidity while playing in tune sounds worse that Confidence while slightly out of tune does. Keep that horn pointed above your stand a little too. Looks better. An audience "hears' much better sometimes with it's eyes rather than it's ears!!!
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