| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
JWC8220
New Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2020
Posts: 1
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:34 am Post subject: Plastic mouthpieces |
 |
|
| Anyone any comments on playing plastic/acrylic or alternative mouthpieces? Recently purchased clear acrylic warburton tops - endurance seems better than using the brass tops.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12662
Location: Gardena, Ca
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Have you checked the mouthpiece forum for any existing discussions?
One tip if you decide to search, don’t bother with the forum’s search function. It is pretty much worthless. Use bing/google, etc and add the term site:trumpetherald.com to limit your search results to this site. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pete
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 1739
Location: Western Massachusetts
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Plastic mouthpieces |
|
|
| JWC8220 wrote: | | Anyone any comments on playing plastic/acrylic or alternative mouthpieces? Recently purchased clear acrylic warburton tops - endurance seems better than using the brass tops.... |
If it works use it! Bobby Shew uses his Kelly mouthpiece often. And Warburton mouthpieces are quality pieces. I like the fact that you can match the acrylic top to their standard metal backbores. And this should actually be in the Mouthpiece forum instead of the horn forum.
Pete |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Troy Sargent
Veteran Member
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 205
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I use a delrin rim occasionally when things get cold. Some types of plastic will "stick" to your lips better than metal that may be what is giving you the endurance effect. Hard to say.
I do prefer metal and use the delrin only when necessary.
_________________
www.tsargentmusic.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jaw04
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 900
Location: Bay Area, California
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I have a Kelly plastic mouthpiece for cold weather. To be honest I just got it because it was cheap. I dont really use it ever these days. It can be used to "darken" or "dampen" the tone as well if you want, but I prefer a lively sound. Bobby Shew uses one on gigs. It feels nice on the chops but made me play pretty flat and I felt like my sound doesn't sing with it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
THE BD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 897
Location: Columbus, Oh-hi-uh
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have a plastic Kelly piece in case of cold weather, but I dread actually using it. With the plastic I feel like I am not feeling the mouthpiece on my lips and end up using excessive pressure and killing my chops for a few days.
_________________
Martin D Williams
Yeah, I did that! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dayton
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 2036
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
I play Pickett/Blackburn mouthpieces. A while back I picked up an acrylic top with the same rim and cup from Pickett to use for cold weather performances -- holiday brass choirs, etc. It is all that I use now. I play with a dry embouchure, and find that the acrylic is ideal for that.
There really isn't much difference in sound between the acrylic top and the traditional silver-plated brass top -- perhaps just a bit more warmth to the sound.
Prior to getting the acrylic tops from Pickett I tried Kelly Lexan mouthpieces for my trumpet and cornet. They worked ok, but none of the Kelly configurations matched my setup well, so I switched to acrylic to get the same Pickett/Blackburn setup that works best for me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dayton wrote: | | There really isn't much difference in sound between the acrylic top and the traditional silver-plated brass top -- perhaps just a bit more warmth to the sound. |
Have you ever tried a full plastic mouthpieces vs plastic top/metal back? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2440
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have a couple plastic mouthpieces including a stock Allora that was surprisingly good (while the plastic trumpet it came with was absolute garbage).
To me, even the well made ones feel a little weird. Beyond that, there is a tonal difference that results from a lack of the higher frequency damping provided by the greater mass of a metal piece. If you are looking to play dark, plastic wont cut it. If looking for a good DCI line piece, the geometry of some plastic pieces is right there with the best metal ones and it wont freeze your face.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dayton
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 2036
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Have you ever tried a full plastic mouthpieces vs plastic top/metal back? |
Yes, but not a perfect comparison. I used Kelly Lexan mouthpieces for my trumpet and cornet last holiday season -- those are entirely "plastic." They worked reasonably well. The Kelly rim/cup wasn't quite right for me on either piece, however, so I cannot say precisely how the full Lexan piece impacted the sound as what I didn't like may just have been a rim/cup issue and not due to the entire mouthpiece being Lexan.
By comparison, the acrylic top that I use for all of my playing now is identical to the metal version it replaced, and the difference in sound is almost imperceptible. I can thus confidently state that on identically configured mouthpieces the difference between "plastic" (acrylic) and silver-plated brass is minimal sound-wise, (but the acrylic is more comfortable for me). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eliot
Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2018
Posts: 123
Location: Melbourne, Australia
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yesterday I took delivery of a Kelly 3C mpc as a possible replacement for the Yamaha 14B4. The Bach 3C is supposed to be the equivalent for the Yamaha 14B4 (so I have been advised).
I reckon I've found the rim of the Kelly very sharp, almost cutting (outer edge) on the chops. Sure not suitable for me for an hour long practise or "outing." Tone-wise, it sounds more brassy, ie, sharp/harsh rather than "mellow."
Anyone with similar experience? Comments would be appreciated.
While I'm thinking of it ...
Has anyone attempted to reduce the sharpness of the edge on these plastic mouthpieces?
If so, what did one use to modify the edge and what did the finished edge look/feel like?
_________________
Eliot
Rank amateur, still upright and trying hard.
Yamaha YTR6335RC
B&S 150A Alto-Tenor Horn
Yamaha FZ8n (motorcycle)
Conn 83B (trumpet) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
There's a youtube video by Jens Lindemann where he briefly dicusses plastic mouthpieces. According to him, he scrifices about 3% at maximum volume but the fact that it's never cold to his lips is a huge benefit. He seems to think they're pretty much identical to metal mouthpieces otherwise...
N.B. It's a lengthy video and I don't have time currently to look for the timestamp, but I believe it's somewhere in the first 20 minutes. Sorry about that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eliot
Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2018
Posts: 123
Location: Melbourne, Australia
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hibidogrulez wrote: | There's a youtube video by Jens Lindemann where he briefly dicusses plastic mouthpieces. According to him, he scrifices about 3% at maximum volume but the fact that it's never cold to his lips is a huge benefit. He seems to think they're pretty much identical to metal mouthpieces otherwise...
N.B. It's a lengthy video and I don't have time currently to look for the timestamp, but I believe it's somewhere in the first 20 minutes. Sorry about that. |
Thank you for your response ... I watched this master class (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUs7nENq_Xc&) over a few days finishing it last week.
It was Jens' comments that persuaded me to check out the Kelly branded mpc. I understood him to suggest, if not to say, that when he used a regular silver/brass mpc he found it slipping off his embouchure while the "plastic" mpc did not slip to the same extent, hence his reason for using the "plastic" mpc.
Can't say I've been able to use the Kelly mpc sufficiently long enough to determine whether it has better "stick" properties or not because of the, to me, sharp edged rim.
_________________
Eliot
Rank amateur, still upright and trying hard.
Yamaha YTR6335RC
B&S 150A Alto-Tenor Horn
Yamaha FZ8n (motorcycle)
Conn 83B (trumpet) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scottfsmith
Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2015
Posts: 474
Location: Maryland
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
I mainly play on plastic as I make my own mouthpieces on a 3D printer. I agree with the above that it seems like there are more high partials with the plastic. I am going to get one copied in metal soon and will be able to compare identical designs in plastic vs metal.
| Eliot wrote: |
Has anyone attempted to reduce the sharpness of the edge on these plastic mouthpieces?
If so, what did one use to modify the edge and what did the finished edge look/feel like? |
Yes, this is not hard if you are experienced with crafting stuff. Take some 200 or so sandpaper and hand sand, keep on trying to see the feel. Once it feels good, go over with 400 then 1000 then 2000, and finally polish with a buffing tool (or polishing compound). Go slow, you can take plastic off but you can’t put it back on!
_________________
Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Eliot wrote: | Thank you for your response ... I watched this master class (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUs7nENq_Xc&) over a few days finishing it last week.
It was Jens' comments that persuaded me to check out the Kelly branded mpc. I understood him to suggest, if not to say, that when he used a regular silver/brass mpc he found it slipping off his embouchure while the "plastic" mpc did not slip to the same extent, hence his reason for using the "plastic" mpc. |
That's likely correct, I probably misremembered. Apologies. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mafields627
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001
Posts: 3776
Location: AL
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Had a kid get his Faxx plastic mouthpiece stuck in the receiver. Put the Bobcat on it and it snapped the shank. Ended up having to chisel the remaining shank out of the receiver with a flat head screwdriver. Also, they sound slightly diffuse to me. I don't have any experience with a Kelly, however.
_________________
--Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eliot
Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2018
Posts: 123
Location: Melbourne, Australia
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mafields627 wrote: | | Had a kid get his Faxx plastic mouthpiece stuck in the receiver. Put the Bobcat on it and it snapped the shank. Ended up having to chisel the remaining shank out of the receiver with a flat head screwdriver. Also, they sound slightly diffuse to me. I don't have any experience with a Kelly, however. |
Interesting experience ... did you think about removing the tuning slide and tapping/punching out the mouthpiece from within the receiver/lead pipe OR a bit of warm to hot water on lead pipe to expand it and allow easier(?) movement of mpc?
_________________
Eliot
Rank amateur, still upright and trying hard.
Yamaha YTR6335RC
B&S 150A Alto-Tenor Horn
Yamaha FZ8n (motorcycle)
Conn 83B (trumpet) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mafields627
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001
Posts: 3776
Location: AL
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, it was at the end of band class and I was trying to get the kid out the door and to his next class. I did try going through the leadpipe to get the remnant out, but that was not successful either.
_________________
--Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eliot
Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2018
Posts: 123
Location: Melbourne, Australia
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mafields627 wrote: | | Well, it was at the end of band class and I was trying to get the kid out the door and to his next class. I did try going through the leadpipe to get the remnant out, but that was not successful either. |
In light of your experience I've just started smearing a wee bit of slide grease on the shank of the mpc. Hopefully, if the greasing is maintained, it should prevent such a "seizure." (Hopefully)
_________________
Eliot
Rank amateur, still upright and trying hard.
Yamaha YTR6335RC
B&S 150A Alto-Tenor Horn
Yamaha FZ8n (motorcycle)
Conn 83B (trumpet) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert P
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I got a plastic trumpet mouthpiece, feels odd to me, sounds terrible. However I got a plastic trombone to horse around on when the local Sam Ash had them on sale for next to nothing and for some reason the trombone mouthpiece feels okay. I hate the way plastic trumpets sound but the plastic trombone sounds decent.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
