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Playing "on top of the sound" and in the "tap



 
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Howie
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:54 am    Post subject: Playing "on top of the sound" and in the "tap Reply with quote

The Monster Oil interview with Jim Pandolfi at the below link came to my attention in the context of another TH discussion. I viewed it and found it very interesting, but there are two terms, which I believe are related, that Pandolfi uses that I have no clue as to what they mean: (i) (at around 2:30) The sweet spot of a note being "On top of the sound" and (ii) playing in the "taper zone" (at around 5:00).

Can anyone tell me what "on top of the sound" and "taper zone" mean in this context?

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=jim+pandolfi+trumpet&view=detail&mid=10FD09BEED1A4462DEB710FD09BEED1A4462DEB7&FORM=VIRE
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darksmoke
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience at least, I think that by referring to staying "on top of the sound" he's generally referring to having a good strong, 'centered' tone that can just easily rest on top of the chords and make them sound complete and full of body. Much like how lead players work all the time in big bands in terms of their sections (a good section will make his job easier, especially his 2nd, and allow him to easily enter on top of their work while still being heard), in other words he will be maybe just slightly 5% louder than the other notes and be clearly heard up there on his specific note. This means they would have good 'overtones' in their sound and they can travel and cut if needed to reach the back of the audience.

Playing "in the taper zone", I'm theorizing, is a little more technical and gets a bit more into physics here as each note has different points, or 'nodes', in the horn at which it will develop and sound the best when it comes out the other end and travels out to the ears. Each note is slightly different and you have to know your horn and yourself intimately to get that ringing and centered tone he mentioned earlier that all the greats had/ have. By playing in the taper zone you should be getting that centered, ringing sound that is able to stay on top of the sound and be musical. If you want to go a little further in this scientific direction, maybe the majority of the notes all develop in the taper of the bell and he literally means the taper ?
He brings it around again at about 16:10 in the video.

I am no acoustician or physicist and someone with a Masters could probably tear me apart on a few of these points I put here in a few years or so, but if you keep these sort of ideas and terms in the mind and get the pleasure of experiencing it in the real world out there, you'll likely understand quickly with your previous musical experience what Pandolfi is trying to get across to players in this video. Also, what a great video series, I had no idea I would enjoy listening to it this much so thank you for the unexpected introduction here. Perhaps someone else with more experience than me could list some video snippets of this stuff to maybe help you further with these very specific ideas.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding of "on top of the sound" is that, rather than playing right in the middle of the sound, it's playing a bit on top of that, which will give you more edge to the sound.

I think what he's conveying is a swelling and ending of a tone, but keeping the same purity of sound and pitch for it's duration.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MrOlds
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Pandolfi explains exactly what he means in the video. Give it another listen.
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trumpetguts
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOlds wrote:
Mr Pandolfi explains exactly what he means in the video. Give it another listen.


This ^^^
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just listened to the video, and my understanding is that 'on top of the sound' is where it sounds most pleasing for the situation. I don't think he means a specific pitch or tone quality, but having the sound that works best at the time.

About 'taper', I think he means that some players 'search' for being 'on top of the sound' and they sort of move (taper) trying to achieve it. His goal is to be 'on top' immediately, and to continue being 'on top' through the end.

In the interview, Pandolfi mentions that 'tone' is primary. For a pro at his level that's probably very true - because all of the other items such as articulation, pitch, volume, phrasing, etc. are already completely solid.

Jay
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was a great post.
I bet few here sat through it, because he doesn't beat around the bush and it is actually very simple; Sit on the sound that sounds the best and learn how to use it.
This is the approach those of us raised in and around Chicago have been taught how to breathe and sound.
Let it sing!!
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
This was a great post.
This is the approach those of us raised in and around Chicago have been taught how to breathe and sound. Let it sing!!


I never thought of it that way, but my teacher in H.S. and first part of college had studied at Northwestern with Schilke and we concentrated on sound and wind.
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mcstock
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Bond describes what he learned from Pandolfi and how it saved his job at the Met in this podcast.
https://soundcloud.com/user-777277483/ep-57-peter-bond

Matt
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcstock wrote:
Peter Bond describes what he learned from Pandolfi and how it saved his job at the Met in this podcast.
https://soundcloud.com/user-777277483/ep-57-peter-bond

Matt


Can anybody turn me onto the book Peter Bond said he was writing? Thanks.
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"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker
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mcstock
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
mcstock wrote:
Peter Bond describes what he learned from Pandolfi and how it saved his job at the Met in this podcast.
https://soundcloud.com/user-777277483/ep-57-peter-bond

Matt


Can anybody turn me onto the book Peter Bond said he was writing? Thanks.


He recently said on Facebook that it's finished and been sent to the publisher. The release date is up to them.

Matt
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ mcstock, thanks.
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Bflatman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is right on the money.

I discovered this for myself long ago and I know exactly what he is describing.

Listen to his words carefully. It is all in there. Follow the breadcrumbs.

Apart from the other stuff of course
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Usedtobegood
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcstock wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
mcstock wrote:
Peter Bond describes what he learned from Pandolfi and how it saved his job at the Met in this podcast.
https://soundcloud.com/user-777277483/ep-57-peter-bond

Matt


Can anybody turn me onto the book Peter Bond said he was writing? Thanks.


He recently said on Facebook that it's finished and been sent to the publisher. The release date is up to them.

Matt


I have an early draft copy of Pete's book...great stuff and it helped me quite a bit in my comeback. I believe he made some great additions/improvements in the final version. Plus I'm sure he added some great art, Pete is quite the artist/caricaturist.
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