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5-valved C trumpet by Prof. David Hickman


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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:48 pm    Post subject: 5-valved C trumpet by Prof. David Hickman Reply with quote

This is the REAL deal - invented by Professor David Hickman and manufactured by Blackburn.

The design allows music in the hardest keys to played with ease.

The videos below have been posted on YouTube in Summer of 2014.
Beautifully played by Prof. Hickman!


Link



Link


The excerpts in both videos would likely sound just as magnificent on a regular C trumpet, if played by Prof. Hickman. For the rest of us, the insecure notes and passages in difficult keys would sound better and cleaner on the 5-valved horn.

Historical precursors of the five-valve trumpet are described in this booklet by Prof. Hickman.

The motivation to add extra valves and make the hard parts play easier had resulted in a number of trumpet modifications, such as the Conn quick Bb-A tuning mechanism. The Conn mechanism, however, could not have been adjusted on-the-fly.

Prof. Merri Franquin, 104 years ago, had created a different five-valved C trumpet. "Like the 4-valve instrument, the fourth valve raised the pitch a whole step, placing the instrument in D. The fifth valve lowered the pitch a minor third, placing the instrument in the key of A." [D. Hickman, Introducing the 5-valve C Trumpet by Blackburn Trumpets.]

Prof. M.Franquin's five-valved trumpet was tuned (open) in keys of C, A, D and B natural. The problematic part of M.Franquin's design was that with a minor third (key of A) actuation possible, the first, second and third slides would have to be all substantially increased in length, making this key less in tune without slide adjustments.

With Hickman's design, the base tuning of the horn is, at most, changed by a one whole tone up, or a semitone down, when any actuation of fourth and fifth valve is applied. This allows the notes to remain in tune in all positions of the fourth and fifth valves (C, B, Db and D).

The Hickman design is very flexible:
1. The piston fourth valve, lowering the pitch by a semitone from C to B natural, can be played, left in the "up" C position, or locked with a slider in the depressed position of B natural.
2. The rotary fifth valve, raising the pitch from C by a whole tone to D, can be played, left in the "C" position, or locked with a hook in the D position.
3. The combination of the fourth piston valve and the fifth rotary valve allow the trumpet to play in the key of Db.
4. With fourth and fifth valves not actuated, the horn plays as a regular (fantastic quality!) C trumpet.

That the extra valving could have been added without adversely affecting the tuning and the blow, is absolutely amazing.

A complete description of horn can be found on Prof. Hickman's website.

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some_blue
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:48 am    Post subject: Dr. Hickman & 5 valve Blackburn Trumpet Reply with quote

Wonderful!
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delano
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

indeed april 2014

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1358233
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Steve A
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So out of curiosity, how many people have actually played one of these?
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Daniel Barenboim
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

“Crickets”

DB
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oxleyk
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve A wrote:
So out of curiosity, how many people have actually played one of these?


I've held one but I'm not qualified to shoot such a weapon.

Kent
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trpt.hick
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cliff Blackburn made and sold a bunch of them. . . maybe 8-10. . . before retiring and selling the company to Peter Pickett. Peter has also made and sold a few. Not everyone can wrap their heads around how to use this horn, but those who do immediately love it. The double French horn took many decades to become widely accepted, and four and five valve euphoniums and tubas took many years to be adopted too, so we will have to wait and see if this trumpet becomes really popular in the future.

I remember when I was a kid that trombonists were very much opposed to having a F attachment, but it is very common to see trombonists today with one or two triggers. And don't forget, history tells us that the trumpet (cornet) valve was invented and patented in 1810 in France, but players of the old natural trumpet didn't fully accept it and switch to valve instruments until 1870 or so. Arban was the main person to advance this change.

Dave Hickman
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The slides in Hickman 5-valve horn are cut for the length of the C trumpet.

While any choice of the slide length in a multi-key instrument is going to be a compromise, I wonder whether the slide length tuned a quarter tone sharper than that for a C trumpet ("C+1/4") had been considered.

The "C+1/4" slide length would place the furthest keys of the instrument (D and B natural) equidistant from the slide tuning (3/4 of a tone). This, of course, will make all keys out of tune, but less so for the D side.

Tuning to a "C+1/4" would mainly affect the length of the second valve slide, as the lengths of the first and the third valve slides are adjustable on-the-fly.
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trpt.hick
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valve slides are cut more towards the D trumpet length.
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Bryant Jordan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's fantastic! We need more innovation in the trumpet world such as this. I hope this will become the 'standard' eventually.
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seilogramp
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything to avoid the awkward low B to C#, as in Clarke Fourth Study, #71. 😆
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpt.hick wrote:
Valve slides are cut more towards the D trumpet length.


Nice to know we think alike!
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

seilogramp wrote:
Anything to avoid the awkward low B to C#, as in Clarke Fourth Study, #71. 😆


What doesn't kill you... often makes you want to die all the same
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For anyone interested, here is a link to a DMA paper on the subject...

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/bde8/470c9662d84d94b43d18fdd9b87024f98f1d.pdf
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstpt wrote:
For anyone interested, here is a link to a DMA paper on the subject...

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/bde8/470c9662d84d94b43d18fdd9b87024f98f1d.pdf


To give full appreciation to the paper above, here is its complete title:

"The Five-Valve C Trumpet: History, Design, and Advantages", by Bryan C. Ewing. A Research Paper Presented in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements for the Degree Doctor of Musical Arts, 2016.
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trumpet56
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am interested in the valve slide lengths. Do you need to adjust them differently for each key?
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trpt.hick
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The valve slides are cut for D trumpet length. Sharp notes will need some triggering, like on all trumpets. It doesn't feel much different than any other horn as far as that is concerned.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpt.hick wrote:
The valve slides are cut for D trumpet length. Sharp notes will need some triggering, like on all trumpets. It doesn't feel much different than any other horn as far as that is concerned.


Do you actually play it in any single key? Or do you just treat it like a C trumpet with lots of alternate fingering options?
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trpt.hick
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you watch the videos, you will see that the instrument is in the key of C when all valves are open, but it can change keys of instrument on the fly by depressing the fourth and/or fifth valves. The fourth and fifth valves have little swivel locks to hold them down if desired, holding the instrument in B-natural (locking 4th valve down), D-flat (locking both down), or D (locking 5th valve down).
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a.kemp
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got to try one once. It’s a pretty cool/fascinating horn! Very Tottle like.

My only thing I didn’t love was the bell felt small (smaller than a C trumpet) and felt more D trumpet like. Cool nonetheless!
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