• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

I can't warm up


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CJceltics33
Veteran Member


Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 422
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:00 am    Post subject: I can't warm up Reply with quote

During my first session of the day, my response is so bad I literally can't articulate. This problem is much worse in the morning. I could sit there and try to warm up for an hour and it would not get better.

Also note that I have two one hour blocks to practice each day, no more no less.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
harryjamesworstnightmare
Veteran Member


Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is your warm up routine for the first session? And what is the last thing you play the night before?
_________________
Brian James
-------------------------
King Super 20 Symphony
Bach Strad 25/43 Sterling Silver Plus
Getzen Proteus
Yamaha 6335HS
Olds Super
Olds Mendez
Getzen Custom 3850 Cornet
Conn 80A
Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 4921
Location: Hawai'i - Texas

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breath exercise
Long Tones
Cichowicz Long Tones
Concone
Schlossberg
??
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Charlie Parker
"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CJceltics33
Veteran Member


Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 422
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani, the list you write is exactly my warm up, although I do not do condone prior to Schlossberg.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bflatman
Veteran Member


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 451

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are very precise in describing the two one hour blocks for practice.

We are not machines and if we force ourselves to behave like machines something will rebel.

The joy of playing colors practice.

Rediscover your joy in playing to rediscover the joy of practice.

When practice is joyful we love it and we improve

When we improve we love it more and want to practice more

When we practice more we improve and love it more.

We trumpet players are the bringers of joy to the world, but you must start by bringing joy to yourself first. Then the world will love everything you do and you will love it too.
_________________
Conn 80a cornet 1952
Olds Special trumpet 1974
Selmer Invicta trumpet 1953
Boosey & Hawkes Imperial trumpet 1956
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 982
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: I can't warm up Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
During my first session of the day, my response is so bad I literally can't articulate. This problem is much worse in the morning. I could sit there and try to warm up for an hour and it would not get better.

Also note that I have two one hour blocks to practice each day, no more no less.


"No more no less"! This might result in practicing when you shouldn´t, or what you shouldn´t"! By saying that I mean that you will have to cut your coat according to your cloth!The condition of one´s chops is a´changing - not the same every day. Some days your lips are a bit stiff since you, quite accidentally happened to press a little where you shouldn´t - maybe your weren´t even aware. If so you will have to relax your lips instead of making them suffer by Schlossberg. That should be the general attitude - "know thy lips". Besides this some people, I´m one of them, have a hard time playing early in the morning. This not a flaw, it is so because your pipes are installed that way. Other people can play anytime....(but probably not exactly as well early mornings.)
Personally I use the Laurie Frink warm up studies; they begin low then progress; some day I can begin with nr 2, some days nr 1 is a must. And this before I turn to Schlossberg or anything like it.
Warming up means making the blood flow, relaxing whatever muscles, preparing, step by step! Easy does it.
The way I see it.
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Getzen Eterna Eb /M V 1 1/2 C/Schilke 14B
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1973) Selmer 2 D
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 4921
Location: Hawai'i - Texas

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think you may have a problem with constant air flow. Is this uninterrupted and well supported?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Charlie Parker
"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Goby
Regular Member


Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could also be the result of swelling at night. Drink some coffee or lemon water when you wake up and wait an hour before playing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheiden
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 7990
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first 5-10 minutes of my daily routine is my warmup. If you can't get warmed up and aligned in that much time then you really need to seek a pro teacher to find out why. As has been said, it could be too much abuse from the previous day or something with your approach.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CJceltics33
Veteran Member


Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 422
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why coffee or lemon water? I am definitely willing to try.


Yes my poor air flow contributes to this problem. I had a lesson once where the teacher solves this issue and my troubles went away for weeks, but then they came back. Unfortunately my next lessons did not have the same success, and I cannot figure out why.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cbtj51
Veteran Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2015
Posts: 316
Location: Deep South

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
The first 5-10 minutes of my daily routine is my warm up. If you can't get warmed up and aligned in that much time then you really need to seek a pro teacher to find out why. As has been said, it could be too much abuse from the previous day or something with your approach.


Age and a 14 year hiatus from trumpet seem to have changed a lot of things in my playing since my comeback 5 years ago, especially my warm-up requirements.

If I define "warm-up" as an act of preparation for a performance or practice session, that means getting all aspects aligned, adjusted, and functioning optimally before the actual endeavor. In actual application the time requirement varies somewhat, though my established warm-up routine does not. I am often warmed up before my warm up routine is complete but I finish the routine anyway. Of course, the reverse would be true as well but so far, that situation has not occurred. Time scheduling is most important so I make enough space for a complete warm up. Sometimes this is challenging, but where there is a will... Even with the limitations of this Covid 19 period, I have performed Prelude solos during 8 Sunday Morning Services so far this year, meaning a very early wake up and warm up schedule is required. I want to play and play well, so I act accordingly.

A complete warm down has also become a necessity and seems to have a direct impact on my warm up and performance the next day, so I have "scheduled" that into my after performance/end of day time requirements. I am retired, so finding the time is much easier!

None of this may apply to your situation, but it is working well in my current situation.

Kindest regards,

Mike
_________________
No reserve, No retreat, No regret. W W Borden

'71 LA Benge 5X Bb Trumpet
'76 & '98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorns
'76 Bach Strad CL 229/25A C Trumpet
'84 Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
2016 Bach Strad New York 7 Bb Trumpet
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7610
Location: Des Moines, IA area

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.prestomusic.com/sheet-music/products/7731273--james-stamp-warm-ups-and-studies?country=US&currency=USD&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Presto%20Sheet%20Music%20US&utm_term=4580634169089484&utm_content=Sheet%20Music%20US

Buy it anywhere you want.

I'm a believer in Stamp, or a similar standard warm up because it provides me with instant feedback about how my playing is reconnecting to the last time I had the horn to my face before getting it back out. I view warming up as a method to return myself, embouchue, breathing apparatus, ear, mind, etc. to my optimal playing form. The more I am playing, the sooner I can accomplish this.

I started Stamp after working a music camp with Ron Romm who related how he'd show up at Stamp's residence on Saturday mornings to try to get him to put his face back where it belonged after gigging way too hard the night before. I've found that using the same progression of exercise every day has helped me become much more consistent regardless of how much or how strenuous (or not) my playing is on a daily basis. Good luck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
thomasmarriott
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 192
Location: seattle

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When my kids were very young, I only had a few short blocks of time to practice everyday as well. I really messed up my face trying to get as much done in those two windows of time as possible. I found that I needed to "warm up" very slowly, with lots of gaps and breaks, never playing anything strenuous, never playing in the upper register and just going for a relaxed sound without tension. (The running clock caused me to rush my warm up every day so I could get busy 'practicing').

I learned I had to play 10 or 15 minutes of low and slow, (almost anything low and slow) then at least 20 minutes off, if not more like an hour. (No matter how bad I sounded during the warm up). When I would come back to it, I could practice pretty intensely after that. It was a mental discipline because I felt I wasn't going to get enough practice time in - but it was / is far more effective this way for me.

Roger Ingram's book "Clinic Notes On Trumpet Playing" helped me identify that my "warm up" was a lot more like practicing, and probably too strenuous first thing.

I also switched to a bit smaller mouthpiece that didn't require as much maintenance practice and I could work on new things when practice time came.

Maybe I'm not able to get at everything I want to practice in a day due to time constraints, but my chops feel good most of the time, which is great peace of mind. Better to keep your face feeling pretty good than just beating it up every time you get at the horn. (At least for me!) I have to do a little of both, but my mental outlook about the horn is better when I don't feel beat up.

Keep in mind we are practicing to perform, and it's pretty rare we play 30 minutes (or more) non-stop on the horn in a performance, yet this is what a lot of us try to do in the woodshed, and then wonder why our faces are hacked! Taking my time and working on things that were unfamiliar or new or hard was more effective (for me) than a series of daily drills (though that has it's place too.) But if you play the same drills everyday or week, is it "practicing" or "playing"? My understanding is that "practice" is working on things you can't play, "rehearsal" is working on music you can play. This helped me move forward immensely because I stopped expecting that I would improve by playing the same things over and over and over. That worked for a while, but I have to change it up to improve. Sadly that means sounding quite bad sometimes!

Just my experience, hope it helps the OP a little.
_________________
www.thomasmarriott.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cheiden
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 7990
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
https://www.prestomusic.com/sheet-music/products/7731273--james-stamp-warm-ups-and-studies?country=US&currency=USD&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Presto%20Sheet%20Music%20US&utm_term=4580634169089484&utm_content=Sheet%20Music%20US

Buy it anywhere you want.

I'm a believer in Stamp, or a similar standard warm up because it provides me with instant feedback about how my playing is reconnecting to the last time I had the horn to my face before getting it back out. I view warming up as a method to return myself, embouchue, breathing apparatus, ear, mind, etc. to my optimal playing form. The more I am playing, the sooner I can accomplish this.

I started Stamp after working a music camp with Ron Romm who related how he'd show up at Stamp's residence on Saturday mornings to try to get him to put his face back where it belonged after gigging way too hard the night before. I've found that using the same progression of exercise every day has helped me become much more consistent regardless of how much or how strenuous (or not) my playing is on a daily basis. Good luck.

I studied for years with a student of James Stamp. I agree that his approach seems to be particularly suited to getting warmed up and aligned for whatever needs to follow.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JayKosta
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 1129
Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allergies? Head / nasal congestion?
I use old fashioned 1st generation antihistamine tablets. "ChlorTabs", they only last about 4 hours, but are fairly quick acting - to get relief soon.

Avoid salty food for several hours before sleep.

Jay
_________________
King Super 20 (S2 1048, HN White)
Bach 7
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
Looking out my backdoor
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/2020_Aug_02_web.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Goby
Regular Member


Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="CJceltics33"]Why coffee or lemon water? I am definitely willing to try.


They're natural Diuretics. If the problem is residual swelling or fluid that hasn't drained from sleeping, they'll expedite the process of removal. Basically, they help your body get rid of toxins and metabolic waste.

I don't like to play in the morning because my chops normally feel a little stiff if I haven't gotten a good nights sleep or woken up fully.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
american boy
Veteran Member


Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Posts: 304
Location: ny

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would give Claude Gordon Systematic Studies a try;For me, The second study gets me feeling good pretty fast..even if not right away, but after the rest period (he says rest an hour) I am on the way to being ready soon after.
When doing these,I would say don`t be overly critical on how it sounds, just do what he says, do part 2, rest the hour(or so) and see how you feel at that point..Usually does the trick for me
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chuck in ny
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 3553
Location: New York

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not a morning person either and need to wait a couple hours after rising to play the horn.
one thing you might try is mouthpiece buzzing to start the warmup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
zaferis
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1853
Location: Beavercreek, OH

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not what (whose exercises) you play but how you approach the playing..

Not being a morning player, but having to rehearse and perform at all hours due to my USAF band experience.
I found it helpful to:
Get up a bit earlier, warm shower or a good face wash with warm/hot water, brush teeth (gets moisture and blood flowing) - then with the trumpet a few long breaths, some very easy playing, like Flow Studies & lip slur patterns only to a moderate range-no pushing. This for only a few minutes - maybe 15. (Always starting on my Bb legit setup - not a C trumpet/or smaller and not with my commercial setup/instrument)

- BREAK - cup of coffee/tea something warm (not cold)

30 -60 minutes later pick it up again, a short "warm-up"-often just a couple of notes/one or two slurs or flow studies - then routine work starting with scales (like written in Petit's La Sumaine du Virtuose) and Clake Studies #2 - play with ease, sliding through your comfortable range.

Generally, I felt much better after the break and had more early success with this approach.

My chops routinely feel better and better as the day goes on.. getting an early start, ample time to not rush into playing is much more successful.


P.S. don't forget to warm DOWN at the end of the day / long session. a minute or two of low easy playing can set you up better for the next day.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman


Last edited by zaferis on Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:05 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
khedger
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 591
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much are you playing in your warm up?
Generally, a warm up should start with easy playing and gradually progress.
You shouldn't be spending more than 15 minutes of playing time on a warmup. And always remember a warmup is distinct from practicing! The only objective of the warm up is to prepare you for practice or playing.
When I was at Berklee I remember talking to Phil Wilson, the great trombonist. He had just gotten off the phone with James Pankow from Chicago who had called and was looking for help - suddenly, he had found that he had no stamina and could hardly play after a few minutes. Phil asked a bunch of quesions, one of which was to describe his warm up. Phil's recommendation was that he use much less strenuous material in his warmup and to cut by half in time. His theory was that Pankow was wearing himself out on the warmup instead of actually preparing his chops to play. A week later Pankow calls....all is well.

keith
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group