Do mouthpieces matter

[BrandonLuis]

Obviously mouthpieces make a huge part of sound, but my family thinks that it is "all in your head" , let's pool together the truth

[TKSop]

Do they matter?

Only up to a point...

If the size is appropriate for you and the design is appropriate for what you're playing - then playing around with different models is unlikely to make a huge difference.

If the size is way off (if you're best suited to small rims but only have large pieces,for example) or if the design doesn't fit what you need to do (your 1X 24/24 may suit you well for orchestral, but you'd have to be mental to try and play lead on it!)... At that point, it's worth investing in some more.


Final observation/point...
If you're not in prime shape, you shouldn't be experimenting with gear changes fullstop - evaluation counts for far more when you're properly in practice (and you're less likely to be blaming gear when you're in practice!)

Plenty of safaris happen when the player isn't in shape and starts blaming gear, tries something new and through constant "honeymoon" highs and lows, never get properly in practice again - so just keep switching and trying new things.

[JayKosta]

[deleted_user_687c31b]

Yes they matter, and no they don't matter.

No mouthpiece is gonna turn a novice into Dizzy Gillespie or Louis Armstrong. And anything a mouthpiece does to alter the sound can also be accomplished (somewhat) through embouchure. They can make a difference in other ways though. For example. playing a deep, large throat mouthpiece for a lead role can be done but it takes more effort and can wear you out more quickly unless you're a skilled player.

A great play can sound awesome on any mouthpiece. An average player however...can get some benefit from their gear.

Personally, I do feel that the mouthpieces I play help me in a way that some others do not. I've recently recorded myself with various mouthpieces and there's a certain...nasal quality...in my sound when using Bach or Bach style mouthpieces that I do not like. It's subtle though and it's probably more audible for myself than for anyone listening. The more noticable difference however is that I have much greater endurance and I no longer bottom out near the end of a rehersal the way I used to.

[TrumpetMD]

[Vin DiBona]

Look in the marketplace and see how many pieces are for sale. You may note that there are usually some large, open mouthpieces there.
Why? Average players "think" bigger is better and they will sound like Herseth, or Doc, or Arturo or whoever.
Every player has their sound. The smart player finds that sound and tweaks it.
I have been a GR dealer for some years now and have had all kinds of players come here for testing. Most of them had the entirely wrong mouthpieces -usually too big and deep.
When I could show those players that they were chasing sound that wasn't
their own, they discovered the right mouthpiece gives great flexibility in playing in sound, range, and technique.
Of course, there were some players who had the right piece and needed to be shown they were indeed on the right track.
Approximate Bach 1 through 2 sizes should be left to experienced players and the plethora of other sizes are available to everyone else.
The right mouthpiece does make a huge difference and while it is "in your head", it is the sound and ease that sound with technique comes out of your bell that matters.
R. Tomasek

[dr_trumpet]

There is no perfect mouthpiece. Only the mouthpiece that makes playing easiest for the player. Not easy, not simple. Just easier than any other. No mouthpiece gives characteristics (range, tone, tuning) that you haven't worked for, nor does it make them instantaneous.

That said, finding the right mouthpiece can be a quest, one best served with diligent practice, a frank and honest assessment of your own playing, and the ability to be physically prepared for testing of potential replacements. Too often, I see folks who expect a mouthpiece to fix all of their woes or those who expect the mouthpiece to give capabilities that are not within the development of the player, or they come into trial mouthpieces in poor playing shape and cannot understand their issues are due to a lack of daily practice or poor practice techniques.

For me, the mouthpieces I use are the ones that I have found best fit my playing. They are not best for everyone, nor should they be.

Hope these comments help,

AL
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Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music

[Richard A]

I once had a fitting session with Alexa Yates, GR consultant. I sampled, under her supervision and observation, about a dozen mouthpieces.

It was an eye opening experience. I never imagined the difference small changes in critical dimensions have on how a mouthpiece responds.

It was time and money well spent.
_________________
Richard Ashmore
I am a Mechanical Engineer and have many years of Social Distancing experience.

[Ed Kennedy]

Does shoe size matter? Should I wear dress oxfords or hiking boots? Of course they matter. Rim has to fit your chops. cup and backbore have to fit your instrument and the style of your performance.

https://storkcustom.com/how-your-lips-dictate-your-mouthpiece-choice/

[kehaulani]

Read just the first post:
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[mikepodorski]

This might be one of those grenade questions, like asking "what is the best oil" on a car forum.

I've learned in my research that everyone has an opinion on mouthpieces, so take this with a grain of salt. From my experience, physicality has a lot more to do with mouthpieces than sound, which I learned purely by accident.

I'm a comeback player. I have had significant dental work since I stopped playing, so I basically have had to start from scratch with my embouchure. I also have a pretty large downward "bump" in the center if my top lip. When I got back into playing, any swelling would cut off my airflow after about 10 minutes with my original smaller mouthpieces. I ordered a cheap Amazon "7c" mouthpiece to take with me to work from Amazon that turned out to be more like Bach 1 (17.4 mm). I noticed that with that mouthpiece my issues almost went away and I didn't lose any range. Around that time I stumbled across the Brass Chats with Jim Pandofi (who recommends the biggest mouthpiece you can play) and Jason Harrelson's video "Facts vs Feelings: Mouthpiece Diameter". Through trial and error, I settled on a Bach 1 1/2c. I have room to adjust for swelling and to change my apiture with my odd lip structure. My endurance is significantly better and my range has improved.

[Bflatman]

I totally and absolutely guarantee that mouthpieces matter.

I am heavily into tone manipulation by instrument by mouthpiece by ebouchure and by articulation.

I guarantee that by changing the mouthpiece alone the tones coming out of the bell will change. I have proven this many times over the last few years.

The question is has this change benefited or compromised the tone.

If you only use a mouthpiece that is the best fit for you then you lose the ability to modulate and manipulate your tone.

Example

I play cornet with an ancient 1892 mouthpiece rim size 17mm cup depth 17mm deep vee. I do this to play rich and full authentic cornet tone.

I play Olds special trumpet with a yamaha 16e4 when I play trumpet.. This is a much brighter setup than my cornet setup.

I set out to play this olds special trumpet like a cornet a few days ago. I took a yamaha YCR 2330II cornet with stock yamaha 11e4 for tone comparison.

I then played the 11e4 in the trumpet with an adapter. The trumpet played richer and darker than with the 16e4 and was cornet like but not dark enough to sound truly like a cornet.

The 2330II cornet with the 11e4 played noticeably darker than the Olds special trumpet with the 11e4 cornet mouthpiece.

I then fitted the 1892 deep vee cornet mouthpiece to the olds special trumpet. The result was satisfying cornet deep and rich tones from the olds trumpet. The tones were almost indistinguishable from the tones from the 2330II cornet but the 2330II was ever so sightly richer to my ears.

I then asked an audience to assess the tones and played melodies on both back to back.

The audience stated that they sounded the same but one audience member said that they were very similar in tone but the 2330II was ever so slightly richer. On questioning this audience member it was revealed was a musician. I believe he had a better ear than the other audience members.

It would not be possible to make a trumpet sound much darker in this way if the mouthpiece choice did not affect the tone.

I have been told many times that it is not possible to make a trumpet sound like a cornet. Here we have the proof that with a change of mouthpiece you can make even a bright trumpet sound like a cornet with independent witnesses attesting to it.

I must add that you need to know what you are doing with the embouchure to support any mouthpiece change and its effects.

The mouthpiece does affect the tone and it is predictable and controllable.

I have said many times, either you play your instrument or your instrument plays you.

Everything is impossible until you know how to do it.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet

[Bflatman]

hibidogrulez is totally correct you can make big changes by changing your embouchure you can darken the tone and brighten it.

Look to students thin weak tone as they ascend for the effects of a poorly understood embouchure.

Articulation affects the tone and the fabric of the note if I can coin this expression.

Look only to wynton marslis and chet baker to look at manipulating the fabric of the note by articulation.

As for the general view that you need to select the mouthpiece carefully, this view is correct. your chops may suit a 7c with a cushion rim for example and shifting to a 3c or a 1 1/2 c or changing to a 7c with a bite can affect your tone and worsen your play or reduce range.

It depends on your abilities your tonal choices and your needs.

As for me I could write a book on all the differences that changing the cup size the cup shape the rim shape the throat the backbore the articulation the embouchure will deliver and why.

And we have not even started on tongue position or tongue arch or oral cavity size or mouthpiece gap or venturi or instrument or mouthpiece material or instrument material or valve compression, and they all make a difference and none of these are in the head of the player.

Why does a player typically change a mouthpiece and find an immediate benefit to tone but then over the next few weeks their tone migrates back to what it was.

The reason is they dont realise their embouchure changes over time subconciously to align their tone to their tonal concepts in their head. This is the only element that is truly in the head of the player and it is a douzy.

hibidogrulez is nailing it here when talking about the importance of the embouchure.

Control your embouchure and you control your playing.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet

[AJCarter]

[cheiden]

All 3 posts by this new member contain deceptive and suspicious links. Makes me question their intentions. Anyone brave/foolhardy enough to click any of them?
The questionable links now appear to be gone.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[JayKosta]

To the OP -
we would like to help you improve your playing, and if a mouthpiece change would assist your in that direction, then there's plenty of viewpoints and opinions that have been (and will be) offered here.

But I think that most of us view playing as a 'skill' that has to be learned, practiced, and perfected.
After that ... tweaks to equipment can provide some benefits.

Jay
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[jake50]

[delano]

Mouthpieces matter in so far that without a mouthpiece the playing is harder.

[zaferis]

YES. The better you become the more you will appreciate the differences.

If you sound like butt and have no trumpet skills, the mouthpiece won't make much of a difference. When you have skills that are honed, various aspects of mouthpiece design will help, hinder, support, or inhibit those skills.

Additionally, the mouthpiece and the instrument have a relationship. Not only does a MP fit your face and approach but has to relate that information to the trumpet in a compatible manner.
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Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[Dutch Guy]

The way the question is asked suggests to me that the person is looking for a justification to get the parents purchase some expensive new gear.

So I'll not give a yes or no answer, but I'll elaborate a bit more.

Yes, the mouthpiece matters! It matters more than the horn, in my opinion, although it is the combination that works or doesn't.

That being said: You should be able to get everything you need out of the range of 'standard' sizes that most makers offer. Bach 1.5c, 3c, 7c, similar Denis Wick and Yamaha sizes.... Those are the basics for a reason. They are easily found used, and even new are not super expensive. Most high end and expensive brands just make variations on those sizes.

So, then: when is it worthwhile to purchase these exotic and expensive brands? There's no right answer. They won't make you a better player, though they could make everything a little bit easier, or harder if you don't know what you're doing. Honestly, if you're having problems, get a teacher and experiment with the basic sizes. No expensive mouthpiece is going to fix underlying problems. Only once you are proficient in using these standard sizes, I would look into upgrading into something more expensive.

That being said: I do recognize the temptation of wanting these exotic brands.