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AR Resonance Mouthpieces?


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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Kevin: from your post it sounded like you bring pieces to a gig and then change while you’re at the gig. Once I have my cup/backbone combo sorted out I leave the mp together. You seem to change components on the fly.
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
@Kevin: from your post it sounded like you bring pieces to a gig and then change while you’re at the gig. Once I have my cup/backbone combo sorted out I leave the mp together. You seem to change components on the fly.


Nope. I prepare for a performance using the equipment that I expect to be most suitable for that setting. I never change equipment during a performance.
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLOWUP wrote:
Antonios pieces are unbelievable efficent , well in tune and easy to play.
...
Best in tune, best sounding, easiest performing and most eficient mouthpieces I played ever in my career.

nick8801 wrote:
I just picked up an AR MLC40 with the large back bore. It's by far the most comfortable mouthpiece I've ever played.

theslawdawg wrote:
Tony is a class act.
...
All the flourishing comments are accurate.

Can confirm all of this. I tried them last week without any intention of buying them, because I liked my existing mouthpieces a lot and I didn't think they would be that different...

After just a few notes I noticed how well every note fell into place. It didn't even matter much which cup I used, because they all slotted insanely well. I went back a second afternoon to test them again, just to see if it wasn't a fluke but they still played much better than pretty much everything I've played before, so I endend up buying both a classical and a lead mpc.

Bronze cup with small bore in particular is very, very nice. You can easily vary your tone from bright to mellow to raw and it takes so much less effort to play.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I too am part of the AR Resonance fan club now!

I ordered a 40 MLC and the L backbore from a dealer earlier in the year, and it arrived a few months ago, just shortly after another mouthpiece I received. I usually trial a piece for several weeks before making a call (and also so that I don't end up changing mouthpieces every 2 days...), so the AR Resonance piece went away untouched for about 6 weeks.

I just got it back out at the start of the week to give it a proper go. I did try them locally before I placed an order, and liked the way they played quite a lot. But I have that experience with a lot of mouthpieces when doing initial testing so I don't really put much stock in that experience. Mostly I'm just looking whether it plays in tune, sounds alright, and feels alright. The rest needs more time to really show itself.
However, the AR mouthpiece I tried did play differently, and that was quite interesting. I was expecting something that played more or less like a Monette mouthpiece, it was really not the same feel or sound at all, howeveer.
I was intrigued enough to order one anyway.

I wont go into a lot of details, but I will say that earlier today, my partner (who is also a professional musician) spontaneously commented with a somewhat perplexed look on their face: "Your sound is better?".
I only get about 1 of these every ~5 years, so it is more meaningful than it might seem.
Since the last one, I've improved my playing a bunch, probably played on several different trumpets (even one that I bought sneakily without mentioning, and they still haven't noticed there is an extra trumpet case floating around than there ought to be...), trialled too many mouthpieces, including GRs, Monettes etc and nothing.
But the AR mouthpiece was apparently significant enough of an improvement to warrant a comment.

So I guess I'd better keep playing the darn thing haha.

I'm finding that the sound behind the bell is fine, nothing to write home about, but the sound out-front is very pleasing. The start of notes is clean but not harsh, there is fullness and weight to the sound. I found the exact opposite with the monettes I tried (sounded good behind the bell, not good in front).

The other thing I have found is that the piece is significantly improving the intonation on one of my Bb horns that has some noticeable intonation quirks.

Will see how the next month of playing goes, but I'd have to say they're really quite a unique mouthpiece design, and definitely worth trying.
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
Well, I too am part of the AR Resonance fan club now!

Welcome aboard!
Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
Will see how the next month of playing goes, but I'd have to say they're really quite a unique mouthpiece design, and definitely worth trying.

They way you describe them is similar to my own experiences. There's something different about them that is hard to describe, yet noticable when you play them. I'm curious to learn how they compare to Monette pieces. I've never tried Monette but based on other forum threads I assumed they shared the same design philosophy. Given that you have both, I'd love to hear more of your experiences on how they compare.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mean this in a positive way. There seems to be a lot of cheerleading for AR mouthpiece's response and intonation. But not a lot about (to me) on tone production,

I have an AR and didn't see any value gained overall, compared to my regular mouthpiece, Reeves 42 D 2.

I play from wind ensemble to big band and pop/jazz combos, but my leaning is to a darker sound mainly for small group jazz. How close to that does a standard AR mouthpiece come to that? Thanks.
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoy both Monette and AR and I don't think anything else comes close. I think Monette has been doing his thing and he's got plenty of imitators that strongly pale in comparison. AR takes the functional design elements developed by Monette to a completely different sound pallet. The AR rim is truly remarkable to me. It's the closest thing I've found to connect directly to the sound (like I'm singing).

I do favor the response and articulation of my Monettes and I prefer them for lead-type playing but every time I use my ARs they feel like home. I think they both sound great but they're different sounds for different applications. I also feel comfortable switching between them because of the similar functional design elements.
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Mean this in a positive way. There seems to be a lot of cheerleading for AR mouthpiece's response and intonation. But not a lot about (to me) on tone production,

I have an AR and didn't see any value gained overall, compared to my regular mouthpiece, Reeves 42 D 2.

Your feedback is as valid as any...if something doesn't work for you, you should be allowed to say so right?

kehaulani wrote:
I play from wind ensemble to big band and pop/jazz combos, but my leaning is to a darker sound mainly for small group jazz. How close to that does a standard AR mouthpiece come to that? Thanks.

A good question, but one I find somewhat difficult to answer. For one thing, part of AR's purpose is to provide loads of options so you can pick the combination that suits you (meaning there's not really something like a 'standard mouthpiece'). At the same time, AR dealers don't have all those options available for testing so you're likely to either pick one of the more common options, or take a total leap of faith and have something custom made (unless you're fortunate enough to live near AR's workshop of course).

That being said, I do own a 'brass MC 40 with medium backbore', which is about the closest thing to a standard mouthpiece. I purchased it together with a lead piece (see sig) and chose it specifically for its softer, rounder and more mellow sound (compared to said lead piece). I find it darker than the Bach 1 1/2C I used before, and slightly less dark than a Stomvi 1C (but the overall tone seems nicer). I can still make it sound quite bright if I choose to though and I'll admit it's not quite suitable to emulate a flugelhorn.

Which brings me back to my previous comment about customizing: if you want an AR mouthpiece that's somewhat darker (or very dark), they can make just about any shape you can think of. The owner's quite nice and helpful and can certainly point you in the right direction for such a mouthpiece. I've been saving up for a flugelhorn/flumpet style mouthpiece. If and when I can afford it, I'll be happy to share my experiences.

In the meantime, here's a video of Sergei Nakariakov showing off various different AR mouthpieces. Maybe that answers your question?
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hibidogrulez wrote:
Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
Well, I too am part of the AR Resonance fan club now!

Welcome aboard!
Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
Will see how the next month of playing goes, but I'd have to say they're really quite a unique mouthpiece design, and definitely worth trying.

They way you describe them is similar to my own experiences. There's something different about them that is hard to describe, yet noticable when you play them. I'm curious to learn how they compare to Monette pieces. I've never tried Monette but based on other forum threads I assumed they shared the same design philosophy. Given that you have both, I'd love to hear more of your experiences on how they compare.


The way the notes slots feels noticeably different to me but it's hard to describe they difference.
More important to me is the sound.
Monette mouthpieces to me, not matter if it is Manny Laureno, Wynton or any other player I've heard, have a very similar 'shape' to the sound that I just don't like.

The best way I can describe it is that Monette mouthpieces sound to me kinda like a donut. There is a flat ring of sound that fades out at the edges, but in the *middle*, the sound is not focused. Normally a sound gets diffuse towards the outside, but has a stable centre. A Monette sounds the opposite, and I find that fuzz in the centre of the tone really frustrating to listen to unless they're playing jazz. I thought it was just my playing, but if you listen to people who have been playing them for years, you hear the same thing. The centre of the sound is just not focused in front of the instrument. I've heard David Monette refer to this as 'rub' in the sound, and that it was 'desirable' but none of the players I admire have that sound. It's not the sound I imagine in my head.
Also, the articulation on Monette mouthpieces is not clear. Again, very fine players, you hear their attack and it's like there is a burr on the front of the sound. Again, it's hard to put into words, but it makes me kind of frustrated to listen to, and not what I hear from any of my favourite players.

The funny thing is, you really don't notice either thing behind the instrument, unless you record yourself pointed at a microphone and then it's like "What the heck?"

So the AR mouthpiece seems to do what Monette promises, without being forced into Dave Monette's sound concept, which just doesn't sound right to me.

I know many people will disagree with me, but it's just what I hear - sorry!
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Bryant Jordan
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great pieces. I’ve been playing on one for quite some time now and love it.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The most impressive things I've noticed have been:

- Soft attacks and gentle attacks speak very cleanly. The response is rather incredible.
- The sound stays incredibly full and round at soft volumes. It doesn't lose focus and seems to stay rich.
- When the volume is pushed, it gets bigger and 'blooms' but doesn't get harsh. You get some brightness but overall timbre is quite dark and is very alluring.
- transitions between the notes feel and sound very smooth but are very quick.
- intonation is as good as any mouthpiece out there, and better than most.
- rim is very comfortable.

All very impressive so far! I'm not Hakan, but the mouthpiece that could do that for my playing would surely cost a lot more

That said, I'm not certain as yet I have the right backbore and top for me. The top might be a smidge to small in diameter for me.
Also, the backbore feels a little too large on one of my trumpets (which is about as free blowing as they get) or a little too small on my other Bb. But I'll stick with the current configuration for my 6 week period and see whether that still seems true in a few weeks.
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
hibidogrulez wrote:
Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
Well, I too am part of the AR Resonance fan club now!

Welcome aboard!
Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
Will see how the next month of playing goes, but I'd have to say they're really quite a unique mouthpiece design, and definitely worth trying.

They way you describe them is similar to my own experiences. There's something different about them that is hard to describe, yet noticable when you play them. I'm curious to learn how they compare to Monette pieces. I've never tried Monette but based on other forum threads I assumed they shared the same design philosophy. Given that you have both, I'd love to hear more of your experiences on how they compare.


The way the notes slots feels noticeably different to me but it's hard to describe they difference.
More important to me is the sound.
Monette mouthpieces to me, not matter if it is Manny Laureno, Wynton or any other player I've heard, have a very similar 'shape' to the sound that I just don't like.

The best way I can describe it is that Monette mouthpieces sound to me kinda like a donut. There is a flat ring of sound that fades out at the edges, but in the *middle*, the sound is not focused. Normally a sound gets diffuse towards the outside, but has a stable centre. A Monette sounds the opposite, and I find that fuzz in the centre of the tone really frustrating to listen to unless they're playing jazz. I thought it was just my playing, but if you listen to people who have been playing them for years, you hear the same thing. The centre of the sound is just not focused in front of the instrument. I've heard David Monette refer to this as 'rub' in the sound, and that it was 'desirable' but none of the players I admire have that sound. It's not the sound I imagine in my head.
Also, the articulation on Monette mouthpieces is not clear. Again, very fine players, you hear their attack and it's like there is a burr on the front of the sound. Again, it's hard to put into words, but it makes me kind of frustrated to listen to, and not what I hear from any of my favourite players.

The funny thing is, you really don't notice either thing behind the instrument, unless you record yourself pointed at a microphone and then it's like "What the heck?"

So the AR mouthpiece seems to do what Monette promises, without being forced into Dave Monette's sound concept, which just doesn't sound right to me.

I know many people will disagree with me, but it's just what I hear - sorry!


I completely disagree with your assessment and the idea that AR is any more versatile than Monette.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just said that I don't like the sound of monette mouthpieces. I find it makes the structure of the sound not what an of the players I admire sound like, with exception of some jazz musos who lean into that sort of smokey, breathy sound.
I have the sound of Hakan, Phil Smith, Tine Helseth, Nakriakov and James Morrison in my head. None of them play with a sound that a Monette seems designed to produce as I haven't heard any Monette players who don't have a weird structure to their sound that I simply don't like and don't hear in any of those players.

Like I said, people will disagree, but I have tried several different Monettes, including the Resonance versions, and they all have a characteristic sound that is not what I want to hear. If they work for you, great.

The only guy I've heard that sounds great on them is probably Patrick Hession but that's a very different style of playing, and I think the lighter blanks actually improve the sound noticeably. Like, I think the tradition plus models sound significantly better than the normal ones...

But to each their own. I know what I want to hear from my bell and it's not the sound of a Monette. Sorry!
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
I just said that I don't like the sound of monette mouthpieces. I find it makes the structure of the sound not what an of the players I admire sound like, with exception of some jazz musos who lean into that sort of smokey, breathy sound.
I have the sound of Hakan, Phil Smith, Tine Helseth, Nakriakov and James Morrison in my head. None of them play with a sound that a Monette seems designed to produce as I haven't heard any Monette players who don't have a weird structure to their sound that I simply don't like and don't hear in any of those players.

Like I said, people will disagree, but I have tried several different Monettes, including the Resonance versions, and they all have a characteristic sound that is not what I want to hear. If they work for you, great.

The only guy I've heard that sounds great on them is probably Patrick Hession but that's a very different style of playing, and I think the lighter blanks actually improve the sound noticeably. Like, I think the tradition plus models sound significantly better than the normal ones...

But to each their own. I know what I want to hear from my bell and it's not the sound of a Monette. Sorry!


There's no need to apologize. Your characterization of the "Monette sound" is just wrong. That's not a matter of opinion. If you think "smoky and breathy' equals Monette, you have a misunderstanding of their equipment and their mission. Also, with all due respect, if you think Patrick Hession is the best sounding player to play Monette, you're not listening.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So - - - what are you really saying, Kevin?


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anrapa
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everybody, this is AR Resonance here!
Thanks for the many interesting and nice words about my mouthpieces.
I rarely read forums nowadays as work keeps my inside a brass cage but I’ll be happy to reply to some questions if you want to ask.
I’ve seen many different opinions on how my pieces work, sound, feel. This is very nice as I offer many different kinds of setups through the different backbores that I make.
Some are tailored for a classical sound, some are for lead, some are for jazz and some are for everything.
Well, each of the backbores is good for everything, it all depends on what a player needs and wants in the end.
Ciao!
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:


There's no need to apologize. Your characterization of the "Monette sound" is just wrong. That's not a matter of opinion. If you think "smoky and breathy' equals Monette, you have a misunderstanding of their equipment and their mission. Also, with all due respect, if you think Patrick Hession is the best sounding player to play Monette, you're not listening.


They don't sound smokey, they sound 'hissy'. if you're playing smokey and breathy then the his fits the sound. Otherwise, it's deeply irritating to listen to.

I mean that Patrick's style or playing makes the Monette sound less of problematic by virtue of sheer volume.

I hear what I hear, and frankly so do most pros.playing the music I play. They almost universally they don't like the sound that come out of their instrument or anyone else's when playing. It's also amusing when you know someone who has done recording engineering for an excellent player playing Monette, and they've come into the booth to listen back as said "I don't like the 'fff' (like when saying the letter 'f') I'm hearing, what is that?". Being an experienced tech, they just told them 'oh, must be a mic placement issue'' and basically just turned off any mics that were getting direct sound, including back of hall. Ended up just using some overheads on the stage that were behind where they were standing, so that what was picked up was mostly reflected sound. In reality, it was true to how they sounded out front.

Like I said, you probably won't notice the 'monette' sound behind the bell. You probably won't notice it when you have other instruments masking the 'rub' as Dave calls it. Just because you don't notice it doesn't mean it isn't a problem. I mean, heck, you might even be fooled by Dave's videos because he has machinery running during play tests (which immediately raises questions).

There are some great players playing Monette... But if I compare their sound on and off Monette equipment, they sound better on other mouthpieces. Some pros knowingly give that up for the feel and intonation placement of monette mouthpieces but they sound better on pretty much any other decent brand of mouthpiece you hear them on.

If the 'feel' of the mouthpiece is worth the lack of clarity in the middle of the sound structure, that's up to you.

Alas, slagging Monette was never my intention and am only doing so because you pressed on some throwaway comments. I only made the initial comparison because it was the logical one.

Once I'm able to get back in a hall, I'll have a colleague listen to the AR there and in a dry environment, and set up microphones and do some careful listening and scrutinizing, but it will be months before we can access venues again where I am.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this thread about AR Resonance mouthpieces?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Is this thread about AR Resonance mouthpieces?




It's TH, what did you expect?

I had a few of Tony's MPs....I would email him. He's very responsive, and a class act. I ordered a few of his heavier blank pieces in the 3 size range and I got that smokey dark tone with that setup. Very cool. Totally didn't sound like Patrick H. with those pieces.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is Capt. Kirk when we need him?
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