Tonguing in upper register

[JohnO]

Hi all. I’m trying to articulate better in the E to G above high C range for some salsa playing. I’m happy with my embouchure which I don’t pivot or change over the range of the horn. And I use modified K tonguing with a good chest up position and good air.
When using this setup, I’ve read plenty that the tongue goes up and forward as one ascends. Well that’s too vague for me. I've tried the “spitting a seed off of the front of the tongue” and different ways of saying tee and tu (like the French). What seems to work for me is the tip of my tongue drops a little (from the seed spitting position) and I tongue from just a little further back on the tongue (not full on K tongue at all). And this seems to go against tongue up and forward teaching.
So, any insights here would be appreciated. Thanks much.

[juanc]

I too use the K tongue modified method and something I always try to do is to "remember" the feeling as when I whistle which I feel the tip of my tongue against the lower teeth (upper part) and the arch forms right upfront. As I ascend I feel the tip of the tongue going up as well as the arch.
Best Regards, Juan
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[Lionel]

Upper register tonguing develops simultaneously with progress on the embouchure. This may seem counter intuitive but it's really true. lower register tonguing is much easier because the force of air pressure is greatly lessened.

I'm teaching my students the Stevens-Costello system. In fact I don't want to take on kids who won't adapt to it. I have my kids spend their whole first year using breath attacks on everything. From Low C to well over High C*.

Next: Instead of trying to attack, say an E/High C? Instead hit it with a breath attack first. You'll usually hit a few undesired tones before arriving at the note in mind but keep at it. Because as soon as you can immediately arrive at that high E (or F and G above) with just a breath attack? Now you're ready to start tonguing it.

Think of simply adding a light tongue to the breath attack. But keep your mouth corners firm all through the note.

Another way to get used to articulation in the upper register is to start on a note that's near the top of the middle register. Like an F natural top line treble clef. Hit 6 to 12 eighth notes, take mouthpiece off lips and repeat. Now play this same phrase twice more as you did but start on the A flat. You don't have to play it perfectly but keep ascending chromatically until arriving at a note near the last minor third of your practice range. There's no need to squeeze out the absolute highest note you've got

Don't trip out if your articulation isn't reliable while in the early stages of your embouchure's development. Instead just keep using air attacks on all your high notes. Sooner or later you're going start tonguing these notes. It's much more a part of chop development than it is tonguing. As a young, weak or flabby embouchure simply can not withstand the abrupt pressure and release of the powerful force of air required to hit a good solid high note.

Again, just play air attacks on all your high notes the first year or so that you begin to blow the upper register.


*One young man has already popped a G/Double C. He did it in his first day playing the system. Man it was beautiful! (:
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[x9ret]

It is surely helpful to play some exercises no louder than mezzo piano some staccato quavers gently starting with breath attack from mid-range going up and down the scale bringing in the tongue for precision or even better in my view the arpeggio, ensuring you think of it as "whistling" not "blowing" and keeping mouthpiece pressure to the most minimum you possibly can, with a metronome even better.
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[vwag]

All great comments, something I’ve been working on. I appreciate the question any insights.

[Rod Haney]

Playing notes with tongue thru lip staccato starting with staff g and working thru open notes to as high as I can with good initial control of the pitch has helped me a lot. I have hi c now and hope to get to g but it does take some time to get each note centered on 1st poke. No use to try it higher till you have note below crisp and centered. The tongue thru lips helps initial accuracy tremendously😊
Rod

[JohnO]

Ok, Lionel, I can reliably air attack up to G above high C, occasionally even an A- nicely. But man, the second I move my tongue to articulate the pitch falls off. I generally use Clarke mod K tonguing. I am bending the pitch deliberately as I work myself higher to increase flexibility thinking my tongue is getting a bit rigid especially after high E. That seems to be helping.
Thanks again for your tips.

[Lionel]