Is it worth it to buy a 3D Printer to print mouthpieces

hoff_n_horn

I'm looking into buying a 3D Printer for prototyping custom mouthpieces for a couple friends before getting them fabricated in the future. I've looked into a Formlabs 3B so far. Does anyone have any suggestions on what rig to buy or any past experience with printed mouthpieces? Or if its even a good idea in the first place? Thanks.

John_t_nz · Regular Member Joined: 22 Aug 2020 Posts: 25

Have a watch of this video

https://youtu.be/3gVpGVJ0F8A
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deleted_user_687c31b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Depending on how many prototypes you intend to make, it may be cheaper to design them and outsource the printing itself. It'll save you the cost of buying a printer and buying materials for it.

etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6184

I would suggest to make AutoCAD drawings for any mouthpiece well-used by yourself and order 5 identical pieces from a single vendor to be made on a 3D printer. Make sure that the dimensions are perfectly done before ordering.

Check for the dimensions of the copies vs the dimensions given on the drawings. Are the copies as playable as the original? Is there any discernible difference between the individual copies?

The next question will be, whether it will be more profitable to outsource from a vendor vs to buy your own machine.

Trumpetingbynurture · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898

omelet · Veteran Member Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Posts: 245

Consider safety precautions and disposal of resin material prior to deciding to delve into SLA.

Zack_Mac · Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:23 am Post subject:

If your goal is just to make them for yourself and have fun, and you have the funds, I would say go for it. But I think producing them to sell or distribute could be more effort than it is worth.

My school has a bunch of 3D printers in our maker's space and I have had a few students 3D print mouthpieces as a part of their class projects. The issue they tend to run into stems around the inability to properly form curves. The rims tend to be very sharp and the cups are not perfectly smooth bowls. You can of course alleviate this by sanding and buffing, but at that point you're changing the rim size, contour, cup depth, etc. And if you want to sell mouthpieces or give them to friends, consistency is key and they would be hard to reproduce when you're sanding by hand.

If you do get a 3D printer, I would use it to create molds in which you make lexan or acrylic mouthpieces rather than printing mouthpieces.

Divitt Trumpets · Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:22 am Post subject:

That formlabs printer is way more expensive than what you need.

Any resin SLA printer will do just fine.
With 3d printing, the quality doesn't change much the more you pay. You're basically paying for ease of use.
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cheiden · Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:04 am Post subject:

FWIW my company used a Makerbot for many years before buying a Formlabs 3 unit. The Formalabs is lightyears ahead. The latest model boasts 25um (about 0.001") resolution. The parts we make are pretty smooth but not smooth enough to eliminate the need for sanding. Not sure if there are materials and/or settings available for smoother though the website shows some samples that look way smoother than what our mechanical engineer is making.
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Crazy Finn · Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:29 pm Post subject:

I feel like this is asking if you should by a repair shop to fix your car.
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Beanboy128 · Regular Member Joined: 08 Oct 2020 Posts: 32

I personally have done this and with a ton of sanding it's really fun and potentially useful. I do say you'll probably find more than just mouthpieces to print. I also need to say do NOT get a resin printer. Get an FDM, the kind with the plastic roles and get foodsafe PLA. My favorite brand is Esun. Resin is potentially toxic and dangerous to print with. Pla is corn based and easy for printing.

cheiden · Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Yes

LaTrompeta · Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:02 am Post subject:

I don't have a 3D Printer, but I do have a CNC router. It's a really awesome tool, to use a computer and machine to create physical things. I'd love to own a 3D printer and a CNC lathe at some point in the future. I just make things out of wood for now.
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scottfsmith · Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:29 am Post subject:

I have an FDM printer and it works great for designing and printing mouthpieces .. once you get over the very long learning curve. Along with a lot of trial and error to determine shrinkage factors and how to tune the printer, you need to learn how to finish the rims (you won't get a smooth rim off a print) and how to build a support to print the mouthpiece standing on its shank (to best print the rim contour). And, you also need to figure out how mouthpieces work to make designs that are actually worth playing on and that is also a lot of time commitment.

All that said, I have mainly been playing on my own designs for a year or two now. On about the 300th print I started to make something that was a good mouthpiece. If you just want to copy or tweak an existing design that can succeed much faster, but not for new designs. Copying is also not so easy as measuring by hand is only accurate if it is relative to another mouthpiece, and you will need half a dozen rounds of printing and correcting to get a reasonable copy. You will also need a set of radius gauges for accurate A/B comparisons of the original against the copy.

I don't have an SLA printer but it sounds like they could be a better choice given the greater accuracy. The FDM printers are at least reasonably consistent in that if you do two prints in a row they should be very similar, but a lot of correction is required and they can easily get out of adjustment and print out-of-round shanks etc.
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cheiden · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:43 am Post subject:

I appreciate the early adopters that have been using FDM.
But there's little doubt that SLA is the way to go now.
For those interested in making a deeper dive here's a comparison of the technologies.
https://formlabs.com/blog/fdm-vs-sla-compare-types-of-3d-printers/
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Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

Brassnose · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:22 am Post subject:

My lab has an Ultimaker 3 FDM and a Formlabs SLA printer. Both do what they are supposed to do, but my concerns for mouthpieces would be: (unreacted) SLA resin on skin and mechanical stability of any FDM printed mouthpiece. Needless to say that the SLA prints are much smoother but I have never searched for resins to be used on skin.

You may want to delve I to CAD drawing and then talk to a friendly CNC workshop to make your prototypes. Not sure 3D printing will really provide you with decent mouthpieces.

A quick comment on bio-based PLA resins: any PLA will hydrolyze over time to release lactic acid, i.e., the mouthpiece will slowly dissolve/degrade when in contact with saliva or the like or when stored in a humid environment.
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scottfsmith · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:52 pm Post subject:

While in principle PLA is biodegradable, in practice the mouthpiece is going to break before it starts dissolving. I have some PLA mouthpieces that are perhaps 5 years old and they are still looking like they were printed yesterday. Besides breakage they will also "melt" in a hot car. I now use ColorFabb XT filament because it has a higher melting point. It is more brittle though so it is a trade-off.

For long-term use you don't really want to play on any 3D printed mouthpiece, it is more a tool for experimentation. They are prone to breakage including breaking off so that you have the shank end stuck in your receiver with no easy way to get it out .. not good if the downbeat is in two minutes! If you get a design you like you can get it copied into metal. Note you can't just send someone the specifications as that will not take into account shrinkage; they will need to first scan your 3D printed mouthpiece and then feed that data into their CNC lathe.
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Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces

cheiden · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:06 pm Post subject:

If they can make permanent dental appliances then I assume they can make mouthpieces that won't dissolve, break or poison you.
https://dental.formlabs.com/materials/#permanent-crown
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart